Ammo Shortages - Real or Contrived

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Oldgringo
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Ammo Shortages - Real or Contrived

Post by Oldgringo »

Okay, I'm the sorta' guy who believes the glass is half full. :grumble

Now that that's out of the way, has anyone else wondered how much payoff is taking place to alert certain buyers of ammo and/or component shipments to retailers so that these unscrupulous "so n' so's" can be on hand at the appointed hour to buy the entire shipment and then resell the product at outragious prices? :eek6

History has shown that the prohibition of alcohol in the 1920's did not work and created national crime, the likes of which were theretofore unknown. Now, we're seeing the same crime on a much much larger scale with the various drug wars around the country and the world. Is it unreasonable to question if, human nature being what it is, that favortism, in return for cash, is not taking place in the sale/availability of increasingly scarce (read forbidden fruit) ammo and components? Such contrivances would thereby surely make an already scarce commodity even more valuable.

Someone please say it ain't so.
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Re: Ammo Shortages - Real or Contrived

Post by CainA »

I brew my own, and after a few, It doesn't matter anymore. "rlol"

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boomerang
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Re: Ammo Shortages - Real or Contrived

Post by boomerang »

I'm sure there are store owners and employees who put aside merchandise for themselves, friends, good customers, etc. I'm also sure it happens across a wide variety of retail goods.
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Re: Ammo Shortages - Real or Contrived

Post by USA1 »

i think owners of gun stores make their rounds to walmart, academy,ect. buy it all up and resale it at higher prices.
but thats just my opinion. i can never find it at those stores, but i always find it at gun stores.prices are a little higher ,so i just get a box here and there. as a side note...i had a box of 380 ammo that i had no use for and sold it to a pawn shop for $30.00 ...i think i paid around $20. a while back.that just shows the demand for that caliber.
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shootthesheet
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Re: Ammo Shortages - Real or Contrived

Post by shootthesheet »

Why would they not sell it if they had it? I am just shocked that more of those that have been buying it over the years have not been more willing to sell some of it off and make some money. I think this really is a matter of new gun owners along with long time owners just getting all we can when we can. I have not even been able to find bricks of .22LR around my area. The people at my little Wal Mart told me they can't even order it because it is all going to the big stores. I looked at buying some Wolf 7.62x39 @ Academy but they are asking twice what I paid for the dirty stuff not long ago. No thanks! I say buy up the ammo and guns. I will catch them after production is up and the Dems fall apart while trying to pass more anti-gun laws.

My money and time is going to defeating future efforts to steal our civil rights. I suggest everyone consider doing the same. If we can't buy ammo we might as well put that money where it will do some good. $20, $50 or whatever. A month or two worth of "ammo money" will help out more than anything else. They are working to take our rights. Do something now so we aren't in a losing battle later.
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Re: Ammo Shortages - Real or Contrived

Post by Greybeard »

A fairly recent article here by a guy in the biz:

http://grantcunningham.com/blog_files/1 ... 0-512.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Supply Chain Management 101: on the ammunition shortage.
Monday, April 20, 2009 Filed in: Ammunition, General gun stuff, Shooting industry

Gunstores continue to be a never-ending source of hilarity. Walk into your local shooting emporium and ask why there is an ammo shortage, and you'll hear inane speculation coupled with a conspiracy theory or two. The reality is that the supply chain for ammunition is relatively inelastic, and and is easily overwhelmed by a sudden jump in sales.

As one industry consultant has told me, ammunition demand over the years has been remarkably predictable. Ammunition wholesalers know (within a certain margin of error) how many units of each caliber they'll sell in the coming year, and approve purchase orders for the delivery of that amount of product during that year.

Ammo makers, too, know with fair certainty how much they're going to sell to the wholesalers during that period, and sign contracts for the purchase of sufficient components to produce those products. They don't typically keep large stores of components on hand, as standing inventory is expensive, so components are delivered on a "just in time" basis.

The suppliers of those components do the same thing with raw materials; again, ammunition is a stable business, which allows them to forecast with pretty good accuracy the stuff they need to make the components they sell. This pattern repeats itself on up the chain, all the way to the people who mine the stuff necessary to make a single cartridge.

Along comes a huge, sudden spike in demand. Retailers all over the country are suddenly swamped with ammunition purchases, and quickly call their suppliers to get more. The first few calls are rewarded with replacement stock, but soon the wholesaler's shelves are bare too - their entire year allotment of ammunition is gone in just a few days.

The wholesaler calls the maker, and the same thing happens: all of the suppliers are doubling (or more) orders to get their dealers restocked, and the manufacturer is quickly stripped of on-hand components as he tries to fill those orders.

The dealers are out, the wholesalers are out, and now the manufacturers are out. But it gets worse.

The makers of the priming compound, primer cups, brass, powder, jacket material, and lead are suddenly swamped with desperate pleas for more product, and they in turn contact the suppliers of the raw materials for more. The entire chain of supply is empty, and everyone has to wait while all of the raw materials are gathered. (I shouldn't have to tell you that those folks have other contracts to fill before they can get to the rush orders - they're not just waiting around for next year's order from the ammo companies!)

That all sounds simple, but it just isn't. As an example, smokeless powder may contain a huge variety of raw materials: Nitrocellulose, Nitroglycerin, Nitroguanidine, Dibutyl phthalate, Polyester adipate, Ethyl acetate, Diphenylamine, 2-Nitrodiphenylamine, 4-nitrodiphenylamine, N-nitrosodiphenylamine, N-methyl-p-nitroaniline, tin dioxide, bismuth trioxide, bismuth subcarbonate, bismuth nitrate, bismuth antimonide, Potassium nitrate, Potassium sulfate, Talc, Titanium dioxide, Graphite, and Calcium carbonate. Each of these has to be sourced from a supplier, ordered, received, then finally compounded into smokeless powder. Think that all happens overnight??

Once the raw materials are finally in hand, the work can start. Lead has to be formed into projectiles, copper into jackets, brass into casings; priming compound is made from lead azide and/or potassium perchlorate, then the mixture combined with metal cups to make primers (they have to be made, too); the aforementioned powder has to be made (a huge job in itself.)

Once those components are ready, they can be sent to the manufacturer, who puts together into a finished round, then packages them appropriately. (Oops - we forgot that boxes and trays that have to be made and printed. That takes time and materials!) They're then shipped to the wholesaler, who (finally!) can ship to the retailer.

This whole process takes time - lots of it. If demand is high enough (which it has been), even the emergency orders placed all the way to the producers of the raw products may not be sufficient, and shortages will continue. That's what we're seeing right now.

The supply chain is simply empty, all the way up to the people who mine the raw materials. It's going to take time to replace all the links in that chain, and it's not because of the war in Iraq/Afghanistan, The Joos, FEMA, the CIA, a secret agreement to implement gun control through ammo availability, or any other silly theory you may have heard. This is a textbook example of what happens when an inelastic supply chain, composed with scarce "just in time" inventories, meets insatiable demand. It's not sexy or intriguing, but that's the way it is.

You know what's scarier? Your food comes to you the same way. Imagine what would happen if...

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Greybeard
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Re: Ammo Shortages - Real or Contrived

Post by Greybeard »

So ...let's say the man at the local BBQ place has always bought the vast majority of his bread at Wal Mart because they have locations convenient to his business and have the best pricing, even superior to that of "delivered bread".

Then, there is a sudden increase in demand for all types of meals at his bbq restaurant, such demand that he does not have bread to go with some customer's dinners, sometimes even no bread for sandwiches. The business owner sends an employee or goes frequently himself to Wal-Mart. He buys larger-than-normal quantities of bread so that lunch customers can have sandwiches, hoping there will be some bread left for dinner meals. The BBQ man raises pricing on his sandwiches, proportionate to the increased price of bread at Wal-Mart - and because "delivered bread" is virtually unavailable - and even more costly when it is available. Does all this make the BBQ man an "unscrupulous so and so"?

Or, might he rather be called something else if he told customers "We have no bread. Please bring your own bread and we'll be glad to make you a sandwich." ;-)
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Oldgringo
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Re: Ammo Shortages - Real or Contrived

Post by Oldgringo »

Greybeard wrote:So ...let's say the man at the local BBQ place has always bought the vast majority of his bread at Wal Mart because they have locations convenient to his business and have the best pricing, even superior to that of "delivered bread".

Then, there is a sudden increase in demand for all types of meals at his bbq restaurant, such demand that he does not have bread to go with some customer's dinners, sometimes even no bread for sandwiches. The business owner sends an employee or goes frequently himself to Wal-Mart. He buys larger-than-normal quantities of bread so that lunch customers can have sandwiches, hoping there will be some bread left for dinner meals. The BBQ man raises pricing on his sandwiches, proportionate to the increased price of bread at Wal-Mart - and because "delivered bread" is virtually unavailable - and even more costly when it is available. Does all this make the BBQ man an "unscrupulous so and so"?

Or, might he rather be called something else if he told customers "We have no bread. Please bring your own bread and we'll be glad to make you a sandwich." ;-)
Wal-Mart, the supplier, hasn't increased the price of bread... :tiphat:.
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Re: Ammo Shortages - Real or Contrived

Post by boomerang »

CainA wrote:I brew my own, and after a few, It doesn't matter anymore. "rlol"
Until you run out of primers. "rlol"
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Re: Ammo Shortages - Real or Contrived

Post by Greybeard »

Not-that-long-ago Wally World pricing, from this forum alone:

Re: ammunition
by fizteach » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:36 am

fizteach wrote:
Blazer is going for 9.97 for .40 and 11.57 for .45 acp at Walmart in Dallas. What is up?

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by Mike1951 » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:14 am

The store in Baytown has never sold the Blazer Brass.

They still have only the WWB and Remington priced higher than a cat's back.

Maybe it's a regional thing.

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by NAK » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:56 am

Walmarts in Ft Worth are very inconsistent. Some have raised prices, but the WM on North Beach, near Keller, has lots of Blazer Brass on the shelves, still at the $7.57 /.40 cal and $9.57 /.45acp price

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by striker55 » Sun Oct 21, 2007 5:21 pm

Blazer brass at Wal-Mart in Katy was $9.47 a box of 50 45acp last Sunday, picked up 10 boxes.

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Re: ammo on sale
by Mike1951 » Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:33 am

Wal-Mart may have finally raised its ammo prices.

I returned to a store that previously had the very cheap prices on their Blazer Brass.

9mm is now $8.97.

.40 went from $7.57 to $12.47.

.45 went from $9.47 to $14.88.

You folks recheck your stores that had the cheap prices.

If the increase hasn't hit yet, it probably won't be long.

BTW, the Federal .22 bulk packs went from $9.88 to $11.97.
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Oldgringo
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Re: Ammo Shortages - Real or Contrived

Post by Oldgringo »

Last week, the Jacksonville, Palestine and Brenham Wal-Marts had the same prices on their WWB's and Federal Bulk Packs as they had a year ago. Of course, they could have put up a "FREE" sign over the empty shelves and the cost to the purchaser would be the same - $0.00 for all the ammo you could carry. :banghead:
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