FL: Two deputies killed in shootout

[seamusTX]

In Okaloosa County, Florida, (Pensacola area) Sunday, two sheriff deputies went to a shooting range to attempt to arrest a man who was wanted for wife beating. They used a Taser on the man. After the effects of the Taser dissipated, the man opened fire on the deputies with a concealed handgun that he had been carrying.

Both deputies were killed, despite wearing armored vests. A total of about 60 rounds were exchanged in 30 to 40 seconds.

The subject fled in his vehicle. He wrecked after running over a spike strip, and officers shot him fatally.

The subject had been previously charged with wife beating.

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In a side note mentioned in this article, the county sheriff and his former office manager were indicted last week by a federal grand jury on theft, money laundering and conspiracy charges.

- Jim

[SlowDave]

Very sorry to hear this. And not to be callous, but in the interest of learning for next time, why in the world would they go to arrest this guy AT A GUN RANGE???!! Is there something here I'm missing? I mean, you're basically guarantying that you're going to arrest an armed man, who is even in the groove in the middle of practice, may have multiple loaded weapons handy... Just doesn't seem like a rational plan. Can anyone help me here?

[seamusTX]

There is no explanation why the police officers tried to perform an arrest under those conditions. I suppose a report will be published a year from now.

It gets worse. Google the name "Joshua Cartwright" and see what comes up.

- Jim

[DoubleJ]

I did, and whew doggy...

He beat the holy bu-jeebus out of her, she got her purse, pulled out a pistol, but didn't point it at him, or shoot.

man, I understand it would be very hard to shoot your husband and all, but he took the gun from her, and continued the savagery.

oy.

thoughts to the families, but at least one person's very own hades is over.

[dburke87]

I don't understand how you go from using their taser on him to having a 60+ round shootout. What did they taser him then walk around for a bit while he recovered? Seems to be some big gap in this story or part of this isn't exactly right.

[dleewo]

From the article, it seems that they tasered him for 5 secs and as it stopped, he got up and started shooting.

Is that how tasers work? I always thought that the person being tasered would be down and out for a bit afterwards. Or is it that some people can recover immediately?

[tfrazier]

In a few cases, tasers simply recharge the bad guy's batteries. I remember a fellow officer attempting to subdue an unruly but already cuffed BG who was kicking us and refusing to be put in the squad car with a stun gun. The BG was a big fellow, and when the officer zapped him he BROKE the handcuffs and a ten minute grueling fight ensued.

Stun guns were pulled from duty after that. We never got tasers while I was on the force, but the demonstrations I've seen since have me convinced they are probably the best of the less-than-lethal options currently available.

This particular case seems very strange. My first reaction was also to wonder at the fact that the officers chose what might be the worst possible venue ever to attempt the arrest. AND the BG was U.S. Military trained??? That's the type of suspect you use a SWAT team to arrest and you do it when he's walking across the WalMart parking lot, not when he's at the range or home with access to lots of weapons and ammo. And not when he's in a crowd of people.

What were they thinking?

Perhaps they were hoping to observe him and make the arrest after he finished shooting all his ammo at the range or something...but that would be really iffy...how could one be sure?

The whole thing seems very hokey...and tragic, of course.

[Purplehood]

Maybe it was a cost-cutting measure. Get some time in at the range AND bring down a perp.

[DoubleJ]

I beleive (and it's just that, my belief), the Fuzz was trying to locate the perp ASAP, which they did by looking for his truck. They were informed by the wife that he'd prolly be at the range, so they looked there. turns out, there's his truck, alright, let's go look for him. he's inside, alright, we hafta approach him, talk to him...
things go south from there.

I doubt the ofcrs really thought, "Hey, let's get this guy AT the RANGE, you know, where there are lots of boolits."
probably just wanted to get this psycho off the streets as soon as they could.
I give'em credit for going into a decidedly stanky situation to do their job.

[KFP]

From the article, it seems that they tasered him for 5 secs and as it stopped, he got up and started shooting.

Is that how tasers work? I always thought that the person being tasered would be down and out for a bit afterwards. Or is it that some people can recover immediately?

Each pull of the trigger on the taser results in a 5 second jolt. This means that once it is initiated, it can't be stopped (it is not only delivering a charge when the trigger is pulled). The jolt delivered essentially contracts the muscles, resulting in incapacitation for those five seconds. This is when it is ideal to take control of the suspect and cuff them.

Obviously, ideal situations are few and far between. It is possible that the taser was defected, there wasn't sufficient spread or penetration of the darts, drugs in his system, etc. It's always easy to play the Monday morning quarterback, but the fact is that the officers felt that it was best to do what they did and tragically lost their lives in the action that ensued.

[bryang]

What a tragedy. For what ever the reason these officers decided to make an arrest on this guy where and when they did we will never know, but for some reason they believed it was the right decision. I pray for their families for God's comfort and peace in this the hardest of hard times.

-geo

[AFJailor]

I live in right next to Okaloosa county in Florida. Both LEO's were retired Air Force cops and the shooter was an ex-DoD gateguard. I have not been able to figure out how, with almost 30 years each of LEO experience they attempted the arrest when they did but if i can find out an answer I will post it here.

Its been a sad year for Okaloosa county, its my understanding that there have only been 3 deputies killed on duty ever and all three have been in the last year.

As a side note I attended the memorial service and I have to say watching hundreds of police officers honor their fallen is very moving.