Registering an SBR lower

[AFJailor]

I would like to get an AR57 upper with an 11" barrel. I understand that you need to have a registered SBR lower to posses one of those "Evil" short barreled uppers, but what is the easiest way to go about getting one registered?

Also, in a little over a year I'll be getting out of the military and moving back to The Great State of Texas. Anyone have a clue how that works? I imagine there is some paperwork to be done moving between states.

There is all kinds of conflicting information online and I'd really like to not commit a felony so any help would be appreciated.

[Rugrash]

Call Robert at http://www.talonarms.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (713-529-2910) and he might have an AR-57 upper in stock. They don't come in 11.5" as far as I know, so maybe just pick one up now and when you get to TX then you can register a lower with the ATF and get the barrel chopped to whatever length you want. I say this b/c it may be more trouble to get the tax stamp and then have to redo the paper work and possibly have to pay another $200 after moving to another state (ask Rob about that). Also you do NOT want to get a shorty upper w/o having your tax stamp already approved b/c that is called "constructive possession" and would be a problem for you.

We, at the shop, created revocable living trusts (via Quicken Willmaker Pro) for our NFA items b/c the LLC route in Harris county is next to impossible to get a CLEO signoff and the trust avoids that as well as the fingerprinting and pics. We've had police and sheriffs attempt this route only to be declined by the CLEO. You can also pay a lawyer anywhere from $500-$750 for a trust if you feel weird about doing it yourself. The trust in Quicken is just like doing your taxes with turbotax, so really there's nothing to be concerned about. We also have a guy that lives in Conroe that does the engraving on your lower for $50 with a 2 day turnaround. Robert at Talon can walk you thru the whole thing as well as help you with the ATF forms. We sell tons of suppressors and SBR's and once you get the first one under your belt you'll wonder why you waited this long. ATF approval is taking 12-16 weeks at this point as well.

Good luck!!

Rug

[WEC]

I went the LLC route and had no problems obtaining a tax stamp for my SBR lower, and I know a couple of others who did the living trust without issue. The only way you could possibly get the Chief LEO signature for an individual is if you're his best friend or relative or if you live in a small town. In Harris County, LLC or trust is the way to go, definitely.

The gentleman in Conroe who does the engraving that Rugrash is referring to is named Keith Norman. Very knowledgeable and nice guy.

Good luck! Next to the wait for my CHL to be approved, and then the wait for the plastic in the mail, the ATF tax stamp wait is a miserable one!

[Rugrash]

I went the LLC route and had no problems obtaining a tax stamp for my SBR lower, and I know a couple of others who did the living trust without issue. The only way you could possibly get the Chief LEO signature for an individual is if you're his best friend or relative or if you live in a small town. In Harris County, LLC or trust is the way to go, definitely.

The gentleman in Conroe who does the engraving that Rugrash is referring to is named Keith Norman. Very knowledgeable and nice guy.

Good luck! Next to the wait for my CHL to be approved, and then the wait for the plastic in the mail, the ATF tax stamp wait is a miserable one!

+1 on Keith Norman. I couldn't remember his name off the top of my head, but yes he's a totally cool dood who does very nice work. Talon uses Chris at http://www.aquilafirearms.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for all threading and custom rifle work.

The ATF cashed my latest check on 2/4 (for my SWR warlock .22LR can) and I still haven't gotten my paperwork back and the wait is killing me. I have at least 2 more things to register this year before my first kid arrives so yeh the waiting part is the hardest!!

-Rug

[AFJailor]

Funny that you suggested cutting the barrel down Rugrash, I was thinking of just buying the 16" version and having it cut down to 11" by ADCO or someone after I get back to Texas.

[boomerang]

If you do have a 16" barrel cut down, make sure they adjust the gas port to compensate.

[Rugrash]

Funny that you suggested cutting the barrel down Rugrash, I was thinking of just buying the 16" version and having it cut down to 11" by ADCO or someone after I get back to Texas.

Steve (ADCO) runs a top notch operation, but I have to plug Talon and Aquila or I'd get in trouble with my boss If you're in Houston though Chris does good work w/ a decent turnaround. As to adjusting the gas port I don't think the AR-57 uses direct impingement, but rather just direct blowback.

My next SBR is going to be an 11.5" Sabre w/ a gas piston (Adam's Arms).

Also if you're interested in .22LR conversion uppers, Tactical Solutions makes 2 really nice ones that are pretty affordable. This particular one has the Hogue tube handguard and no front sight (think we got like 10 of them in stock). It uses the Black Dog mags (which are really high quality). The other one which we don't have at this time has regular plastic handguards and a fixed A2 front sight.
http://www.talonarms.com/talonarms/inde ... ts_id=1767" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've come full circle on .22LR recently since that's about the only caliber that I can afford to shoot. I recently bought 5,000 rounds which is probably more .22's than I could shoot in a decade. But that coupled with a 1911 conversion and an AR conversion, I can goto the range and actually practice on the cheap and still have all my controls where I'm used to them etc.

Since you're military, ask Rob about the LE/Military discount.

-Rug

One last thing, when you do your ATF form 1, you might want to list multiple calibers rather than just 5.7x28mm. Since it's an AR lower you can do 9mm, 5.56/223, 6.8 and 6.5 grendel. My mistake was listing only 5.56 for my 9mm upper and it was only after the fact that I realized it. I don't think it's a problem, but just to be "safe", on my next SBR I'll list all the calibers and then put my 9mm upper on that one and the then put the 5.56 on the gas piston one I mentioned previously. This way you're not limiting yourself to one caliber. I've not heard of anyone getting in trouble w/the ATF on this, but I'd rather not be the test case.

[TexasVet]

Hi guys..

NFA newbie here and I am not sure I understand the whole process. So as far as I understand you can only get full auto, SBR, silencer or AOW registered with the BATFE by having a LEO chief sign off on the form 4 for you (very difficult if not impossible for most) or have the items willed to you by someone who owns them. Do they have to pass away for you to get them ? Lets say I have a friend who has an SBR and wants to sell it to me.. Do we have to go the form 4 route with the chief LEO or is there another way ?
Thanks,

[Rugrash]

Hi guys..

NFA newbie here and I am not sure I understand the whole process. So as far as I understand you can only get full auto, SBR, silencer or AOW registered with the BATFE by having a LEO chief sign off on the form 4 for you (very difficult if not impossible for most) or have the items willed to you by someone who owns them. Do they have to pass away for you to get them ? Lets say I have a friend who has an SBR and wants to sell it to me.. Do we have to go the form 4 route with the chief LEO or is there another way ?
Thanks,

Found a link to another thread on the subject here:

http://www.gunco.net/forums/f111/how-ge ... val-28200/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It will depend on what county you live in (the address on your DL) as to whether or not a CLEO will sign for you. If you live in Harris county in TX he will NOT sign for you...so a revocable living trust is the way to go. If you want to speak to someone about it, talk to Rob at http://www.talonarms.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; 713-529-2910 and he'll explain everything to you.

[WEC]

If you form a trust or LLC, those entities are entitled to owning NFA items. Because these entities are not "people" per se, they do not have fingerprints and do not need a chief LEO signature. When forming the entities in a proper manner, any officer(s) of said entities are entitled to use the NFA items.

Since we're on the topic of cutting and rethreading barrels, I was wondering if there are any negatives to having a barrel of, say, 8.5" length? I often see 7.5" and then it jumps to 10.5" but nothing in the middle. Is it just not as popular or is there something about the rifling that makes it disadvantageous? Hope Rug can help me out on this one.

[Rugrash]

Since we're on the topic of cutting and rethreading barrels, I was wondering if there are any negatives to having a barrel of, say, 8.5" length? I often see 7.5" and then it jumps to 10.5" but nothing in the middle. Is it just not as popular or is there something about the rifling that makes it disadvantageous? Hope Rug can help me out on this one.

LLC route requires CLEO signoff, so if u want to avoid that then go with the revocable living trust. Once you get approved put your originals somewhere safe and carry a copy of your trust and your ATF forms with you. I have an envelope in my range bag at all times, so I never have to worry about forgetting them.

The problem with going with a shorter barrel is that you're not going to get the velocity (less FPS) needed for the bullet to do its job which is to fragment on the target. Also, anything shorter than a 10.5 you run the risk of the bullet tumbling and this is a real problem when running a suppressor, b/c the last thing you want is a baffle strike. Most SWAT and LE's that we deal with (HPD in particular) are now going to 12.7" barrels for added velocity over the 11.5". Now if its just a bullet hose shooting paper then I guess you don't need to worry about bullet tumble, but on a fighting gun I wouldn't recommend it. Now this rule doesn't apply to my suppressed 9mm AR with a 5" barrel. It's like shooting a 9mm pistol and I've never had any issues with it.

Hope this helps!

-Rug

[boomerang]

LLC route requires CLEO signoff

When did that start?

[Rugrash]

LLC route requires CLEO signoff

When did that start?

Not sure when it started since I've only been into the NFA stuff for a couple of years now. I'll try and find out though.

[WEC]

LLC route requires CLEO signoff

When did that start?

I went LLC and it did not require CLEO signature. Stamp approved February 1, 2009.

[Rugrash]

LLC route requires CLEO signoff

When did that start?

I went LLC and it did not require CLEO signature. Stamp approved February 1, 2009.

I was incorrect...LLC's do not require CLEO signature/approval. It is only required if you're doing it as an individual. So if you already have an LLC established or a trust you should be fine.