Just finished my Renewal class ...

[Cosmo 9]

I just fininshed my renewal class and I have a couple questions. The instructor made two statements that I think were incorrect.

1. Hospitals, Churches and Nursing Homes are prohibited under PC 46.035, I thought this had been changed and said so.

2. CHL holders could not carry any handgun in a caliber under .380! because DPS has deemed them ineffective???

I will also say that overall I thought the class was great and the instuctor was quite good and very knowledgeable.

[seamusTX]

Hospitals, churches, and nursing homes are now the same as any other private property. They must be posted with 30.06 signs to be off-limits to CHL holders.

The way that the legislature changed the law was confusing, and many people are confused about it -- including cops.

You can carry any caliber you want. You need to use a .32 or larger for the shooting qualification.

- Jim

[Cosmo 9]

Thanks Jim, I was hoping you were by the pc! I thought for sure I was right but I was the only one in class that was saying so.

[seamusTX]

I should have mentioned that the change made in 2005 (IIRC) was to add PC 46.035(i). They left the sign-posting requirement for hospitals in GC §411.205. However, that section does not define a criminal offense.

BTW, not every hospital has those signs.

- Jim

[WildBill]

I just fininshed my renewal class and I have a couple questions. The instructor made two statements that I think were incorrect.

Congratulations on your renewal. Did you tell your instructor that he could get accurate and up-to-date information on CHL laws on the TexasCHLforum?

[CompVest]

I just fininshed my renewal class and I have a couple questions. The instructor made two statements that I think were incorrect.

1. Hospitals, Churches and Nursing Homes are prohibited under PC 46.035, I thought this had been changed and said so.

2. CHL holders could not carry any handgun in a caliber under .380! because DPS has deemed them ineffective???

I will also say that overall I thought the class was great and the instuctor was quite good and very knowledgeable.

Two grossly incorrect statements such as you stated would not lead me to say that the instructor was "very knowledgeble"!

[Cosmo 9]

I should have added in most areas!

[srothstein]

I am going to chime in here and maybe confuse some and maybe clear some things up. Hospitals, churches, and nursing homes (and collegiate sporting events if the bill passes) are in a very gray area. For all intents and purposes, Jim is correct and they are treated the same as any other private property. That is, if you are carrying and want to go in, it is legal to enter unless properly posted under 30.06.

But, they are also still banned in that you will not be charged with just criminal trespassing. If the premise is properly posted, you will be charged with violating 46.035, unlawfully carrying of a handgun by a license holder. If it is private property, you could ALSO be charged with violating 30.06, trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun.

As proof of what you will be charged with, consider that 30.06 is not valid on government property. Many hospitals are government property. They must now have 30.06 signs posted to keep you out, but you cannot be charged under 30.06 for going into government property. So, you get charged under 46.035.

This is why many people get confused on whether or not they are still banned. For entry purposes, it is treated like private property, but for charging purposes it is treated like it is still banned. If the instructor was a cop, he may have been thinking about the charging aspect.

As for the .380 comment, all I can say is he was probably taking advice from someone and repeating it as a rule. We have seen that problem too many times with that subject and with the carrying and drinking subject.

[seamusTX]

But, they are also still banned in that you will not be charged with just criminal trespassing. If the premise is properly posted, you will be charged with violating 46.035, unlawfully carrying of a handgun by a license holder. If it is private property, you could ALSO be charged with violating 30.06, trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun.

This is true, and I overlooked it.

However, either offense is a class A misdemeanor and puts you out of the game for seven years.

- Jim

[Charles L. Cotton]

I should have mentioned that the change made in 2005 (IIRC) was to add PC 46.035(i). They left the sign-posting requirement for hospitals in GC §411.205. However, that section does not define a criminal offense.

BTW, not every hospital has those signs.

- Jim

It was a little earlier Jim; HB2909 in 1997. That's the same year we established TPC §30.06.

Chas.

[seamusTX]

Thanks for the correction. I was not following these issues at that time.

- Jim

[A-R]

Thanks to all for the detailed explanations of the hospital, nursing home, and church rules. I have been confused by this too, because I remember the statutory prohibition "went away" at some point, but when I went to look it up on PC 46.035 the prohibitions were still listed. I've recently found the need to enter a nursing home to visit a family member, and was leaving my carry gun in the car because of my misunderstanding. I have now read section (i) as Seamus suggested and it all makes sense now. Agree this is sort of a misleading why the legislature just tacked the (i) provisions on to the end of the statute.

Thanks again. This one thread has made this entire forum more than worthwhile just by itself.

[Cosmo 9]

Thanks Steve,

The instructor is a LEO and the drinking was brought up also but since I had no support on the other two points I let it go.

[TexasVet]

But, they are also still banned in that you will not be charged with just criminal trespassing. If the premise is properly posted, you will be charged with violating 46.035, unlawfully carrying of a handgun by a license holder. If it is private property, you could ALSO be charged with violating 30.06, trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun.

As proof of what you will be charged with, consider that 30.06 is not valid on government property. Many hospitals are government property. They must now have 30.06 signs posted to keep you out, but you cannot be charged under 30.06 for going into government property. So, you get charged under 46.035.

So does that mean and government owned hospitals and nursing homes can get around the invalid posting of the 30.06, knowing that the 30.06 is not valid, but if they catch you, then because they warned you, they can prosecute you under a totally different statute (46.035) than what you were warned with (30.06)?

[C-dub]

How is it that most hospitals are government owned? With the exception of County hospitals I thought most were privately owed by large groups like HCA (Hospital Corporation of America) or the Baylor or Presbyterian groups.

What am I missing here? If they are not posted 30.06 we can still be charged with something based on them being wholly or partialy Government entities? Wouldn't that have to be federally owned?

Sorry for the confusion.