Taking the CHL Course this weekend

[john L]

Hi guys, I'm about to take the plunge with my CHL and I have a question.

First of all I am a retired Disabled Veteran, who just retired in 2006 with 24 years of service, highly decorated and possessed a Top Secret Security Clearance until the time of my retirement. I do how ever have an arrest that I'm not proud of; I was arrested back in 1983, in Blytheville, Arkansas for disorderly conduct; got jumped by some local boys that didn't appreciate me chatting with the local ladies. I spent the night in jail, no finger prints involved, saw judge the next day, pled guilty and payed the fine. It was very much the usual for back then, "he's military, take his money and run him off" type of deal.

So my question is, do I need to list this non felony, out of state arrest from 26 years ago on my application? I have listed it in the past on TS Security Clearance applications, but the Feds make it very clear they want to know every detail of your past.

Thanks in advance for the advice....

John L.

[seamusTX]

Welcome to the forum.

You do not have to list arrests unless you were taken into custody and fingerprinted.

In this case, you are extremely lucky. Texas treats misdemeanor disorderly conduct convictions as serious crimes, because in Texas law several aspects of disorderly conduct involve misuse of firearms. Many other states use disorderly conduct as a catch-all charge for getting people off the street when it is convenient to do so.

Thank you for your service to the country and I hope you enjoy the CHL course.

- Jim

[john L]

Thank you Jim, I am very much looking forward to the course this Saturday.

I just dug around in my military foot locker and found my Personnel Security Questionnaire, used for back ground investigations by the Feds. Looking at it, I had the year wrong as well as the charge; the date was January of 1985 and the charge was criminal mischief. I'm starting to think that if I couldn't even remember the year or charge, I may of been finger printed and not remember it; I may be better off to list the arrest than not. If I do list it, what do I need to do about it? They will do the investigation on it correct or do I need to get with Blytheville, Arkansas for a report?

[seamusTX]

You need to produce documentation of the disposition of the case. You have to get that from the court where you were convicted.

Back then, records were not computerized in most jurisdictions, almost certainly not in a small town in Arkansas. It could be that they can't be found now. In that case, the clerk of the court can provide a letter saying that they have no record of your arrest or conviction. DPS will accept that. I was in exactly the same situation with a 30-year-old arrest in another state.

A misdemeanor other than disorderly conduct or domestic violence is not an obstacle to getting a CHL after all these years.

- Jim

[john L]

This morning I contacted the Blytheville, Arkansas PD, City Clerk and the Mississippi County Clerk and it appears that after 24 years they have lost any trace of the incident, including any conviction. The Clerks office is going to fax me a letter stating there are no records of of my arrest or conviction. I guess the best thing to do is list the arrest and plea of gilty on my application and send in the clerks letter with it. If anyone thinks I'm wrong in listing the incident, please explaine.


John L

[WildBill]

This morning I contacted the Blytheville, Arkansas PD, City Clerk and the Mississippi County Clerk and it appears that after 24 years they have lost any trace of the incident, including any conviction. The Clerks office is going to fax me a letter stating there are no records of of my arrest or conviction. I guess the best thing to do is list the arrest and plea of gilty on my application and send in the clerks letter with it. If anyone thinks I'm wrong in listing the incident, please explain. John L

I don't think you are wrong, but you may need to ask the clerk to mail you a certified copy. I am not sure if the DPS will accept a fax. I am sure on of the CHL instructors will read your post and let you know for certain.

[seamusTX]

DPS may accept a fax. Their regulations require certified copies, but they have been known to accept faxes.

The OP could send the copy that he has with his application, then request a certified copy in case DPS asks later.

IMHO, he could also in good conscience omit the incident from his application. As usual, IANAL, etc.

This entire business of old arrests and misdemeanor convictions needs to be cleaned up. Electronic databases of felony and domestic violence misdemeanors are pretty good now. They don't need to waste our time and theirs worrying about old, dead issues.

- Jim

[WildBill]

IMHO, he could also in good conscience omit the incident from his application. As usual, IANAL, etc.

This entire business of old arrests and misdemeanor convictions needs to be cleaned up. Electronic databases of felony and domestic violence misdemeanors are pretty good now. They don't need to waste our time and theirs worrying about old, dead issues.
- Jim

As usual, IANAL either, but

[john L]

You won't believe this guys, but the Clerks office called me back just now and said they found my disposition file; I have no idea why they were still looking after telling me it didn't exsist, but I'm glad they did as it could of caused me some heart ache for sure.

The charge was indeed criminal mischief, in January of 1985; Ipled guilty and paid a 300 dollar fine. I am mailing them a money order tomorrow to get a certified copy of the disposition. Thank you guys for all your help........

John L

[WildBill]

You won't believe this guys, but the Clerks office called me back just now and said they found my disposition file; I have no idea why they were still looking after telling me it didn't exsist, but I'm glad they did as it could of caused me some heartache for sure.

The charge was indeed criminal mischief, in January of 1985; I pled guilty and paid a 300 dollar fine. I am mailing them a money order tomorrow to get a certified copy of the disposition. Thank you guys for all your help ...

Here's to a speedy issue of your CHL.

[john L]

Just got home from taking the CHL Course and I really enjoyed it. I took it at Greens Guns Shop in Marshall, Texas and was very impressed by their professionalism. I have been through many weapons qualification courses in the military and they were every bit as professional as any of those.

I was proud of my performance as well; I shot a 249 score, with a new PT-840 that I had only fired a couple of times before the class and I managed to squeeze out a 97 on the written test.

I also happened to notice that the DPS misspelled my middle name on my DL; I'll send in a letter, with my application explaining that the middle name is misspelled on the DL and that the middle name is correctly spelled on the DD-214 and Birth Certificate; middle name is Emmett, they have it down as Emmitt. The instructor believes it will be ok as is with the letter; we'll see.

Now I am only waiting for the city of Blytheville, Arkansas to send my court disposition form my bump in the road back in 1985.

[KC5AV]

Just got home from taking the CHL Course and I really enjoyed it. I took it at Greens Guns Shop in Marshall, Texas and was very impressed by their professionalism.

Small world... I was in there yesterday afternoon. A friend and I went down to the range for a while. There aren't many folks from this part of East Texas on the board.

[joe817]

Congratulations johnl! Job well done. Nice looking pistol too!

I hope to approximate your scores on both tests when the time comes.

[john L]

Just got home from taking the CHL Course and I really enjoyed it. I took it at Greens Guns Shop in Marshall, Texas and was very impressed by their professionalism.

Small world... I was in there yesterday afternoon. A friend and I went down to the range for a while. There aren't many folks from this part of East Texas on the board.

Roger that, I'm also surprised to run into another East Texan on here.