Hospitals and non-30.06 notice ...

[mr.72]

Not to hijack the other thread but I experienced the same thing as the other poster regarding a hospital. No 30.06 sign, paperwork given on check-in at the ER says something generic about "no weapons allowed" and something about "weapons" being "handed over to the authorities".

Now I presume that what they intend to do is if I show up in the ER with a gun on my hip and during their course of treatment they discover the gun, they are going to call the police to come get my gun, no? Particularly if I am unconscious etc. Am I submitting to this policy by virtue of accepting treatment from the hospital?

Is there any legal recourse if I come in there armed, they take my gun and give it to the police? I have committed no crime, and there is no basis for confiscating my gun.

FWIW when I saw this little "notice" in the paperwork I just ignored it. I suspect most CHL holders will do the same.

[Captain Matt]

I think it's SOP for the paramedics to have the police take your gun if they transport you. Doesn't matter if you're a CHL, LEO or VCA.

[srothstein]

Well, if you are unconscious, the hospital is responsible for the security of your property. They can give it to the police with no problem. The only legal recourse would be against the police (and maybe the hospital if they knew in advance) when it is not returned. They could do the same with your wallet or Rolex watch if they felt it was more value than they were willing to accept the liability for.

But there is no legal problem for you in respect to criminal charges. They have not met the law requiring the proper notice.

[myron243]

And then there's this:

PC 46.035. Unlawful Carrying of Handgun by License Holder
(a)...
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
(1)...{discusses 51% premises}
(2)...{interscholastic events}
(3)...{correctional facilities}
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;
...

Not being a doctor, lawyer or having spent the night at a Holiday Inn lately I have no idea if all the public hospitals in Houston meet this criteria. I just tried to find license information on Memorial Heman's web site to no avail.

[dicion]

myron:

You need to keep reading... further down in the same statute, it says:

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply
if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

So basically... they ban it.. but then allow it again. It's a strange way they wrote the law, but the end result is, if it's not properly 30.06 posted, you can enter.

[Keith B]

myron:

You need to keep reading... further down in the same statute, it says:

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply
if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

So basically... they ban it.. but then allow it again. It's a strange way they wrote the law, but the end result is, if it's not properly 30.06 posted, you can enter.

This was an additional point added later. Originally when the law was writing 1995 these places were off limits. Later they went back (1998 I think) and made them require 30.06. Instead of re-writing the whole section, they just added (i). TONS of folks miss that little add-on when reading the law until it is pointed out to them.

[myron243]

Thanks, guys. dicion, as I was reading your post I recalled having read that a few days ago. Seems I suffer memory problems a bit more than I did a few years ago. Natural occurrence in the aging process, I suppose. So, no righteous sign, wording in printed info handed out, or oral notice then we can carry, correct? Well, you guys can and I will be able to someday soon I hope.

[Kawabuggy]

My B-I-L recently wrecked his quad and was taken by ambulance to Memorial Herman hospital at the corner of 99 & I-10 in Katy, Tx. I got the call and jumped in the car and rushed over there. When I got there with my wife and child in tow, I was greeted by an incorrect 30.06 sign at the door. I had to tell my wife to go on without me while I went back to the car to dis-arm.

Once I went back inside, I noted that they have their own security force working there.

I realize I probably would have been okay carrying, but did not want to jeopardize being there for my B-I-L should somehow someone find out I was carrying and pull me out to the security desk.

What would you guys have done?

[barres]

My B-I-L recently wrecked his quad and was taken by ambulance to Memorial Herman hospital at the corner of 99 & I-10 in Katy, Tx. I got the call and jumped in the car and rushed over there. When I got there with my wife and child in tow, I was greeted by an incorrect 30.06 sign at the door. I had to tell my wife to go on without me while I went back to the car to dis-arm.

Once I went back inside, I noted that they have their own security force working there.

I realize I probably would have been okay carrying, but did not want to jeopardize being there for my B-I-L should somehow someone find out I was carrying and pull me out to the security desk.

What would you guys have done?

My pistol is concealed, and the sign is incorrect/invalid. I walk in. IMHO, YMMV, etc.

[dicion]

[mr.72]

so back to the original question ...

For example a couple of weeks ago, I happened to have a small cut on my back that would not stop bleeding. This, I didn't know until I happened to be out and about and noticed my shirt was wet with blood (black shirt). This shirt also happened to be my cover garment. So I went to the ER and of course I left my gun in the car, but let's say that I didn't, and I carried (no signs) into the ER. Then when I had to remove my shirt for them to examine my injury, which would have likely exposed that I was carrying, then would they have called the police to come in and confiscate my gun? Or would I have just set it aside with my clothing and things in the room while they were examining me?

Seems like the policy they print indicates that they would have called the police in to come take my gun. I don't know if there is any legal precedent for this or if it is in fact legal to do this, which is why I am asking.

[Keith B]

so back to the original question ...

For example a couple of weeks ago, I happened to have a small cut on my back that would not stop bleeding. This, I didn't know until I happened to be out and about and noticed my shirt was wet with blood (black shirt). This shirt also happened to be my cover garment. So I went to the ER and of course I left my gun in the car, but let's say that I didn't, and I carried (no signs) into the ER. Then when I had to remove my shirt for them to examine my injury, which would have likely exposed that I was carrying, then would they have called the police to come in and confiscate my gun? Or would I have just set it aside with my clothing and things in the room while they were examining me?

Seems like the policy they print indicates that they would have called the police in to come take my gun. I don't know if there is any legal precedent for this or if it is in fact legal to do this, which is why I am asking.

IMO, in this case, if you intentionally exposed your firearm you would be in violation. You had time to drive yourself to the hospital and remove your weapon and store it, so you did the right thing. If you had been in an accident or unconscious and they find your weapon, then you would not be intentionally exposing it and not in violation. Caveat IANAL, but played one in a school play once.

[sheffd]

In the hospital that I work, we have the wonderful gun buster sign along with the verbage, "NO GUNS ALLOWED". In passing, I inquired about this after my CHL class and was told that the hospital attornies don't have a problem with lawfully carried weapons. (concealed is/means concealed) I then followed up with our ER director and asked her what the policy/procedure was for a weapon coming in through their doors. Again, lawfully not a problem. Now, if the patient is unconcious, hospital personnel are not allowed to go through the patient's personal effects without appropriate witnesses. If a weapon is found, then the local constabulary is called and the weapon is turned over to them until such a time as the patient is able to verify carry and ownership. (i.e. when they are discharged from the hospital. It does entail a trip to the PD) That said, IANAL and this is only applicable to the hospital in which I work. Can't vouch for any others.

I agree with the previous post about exposing your weapon. If you could drive yourself to the hospital and possibly had the chance that it was going to be exposed, should have been removed prior to that exposure.

[A-R]

so back to the original question ...

For example a couple of weeks ago, I happened to have a small cut on my back that would not stop bleeding. This, I didn't know until I happened to be out and about and noticed my shirt was wet with blood (black shirt). This shirt also happened to be my cover garment. So I went to the ER and of course I left my gun in the car, but let's say that I didn't, and I carried (no signs) into the ER. Then when I had to remove my shirt for them to examine my injury, which would have likely exposed that I was carrying, then would they have called the police to come in and confiscate my gun? Or would I have just set it aside with my clothing and things in the room while they were examining me?

Seems like the policy they print indicates that they would have called the police in to come take my gun. I don't know if there is any legal precedent for this or if it is in fact legal to do this, which is why I am asking.

IMO, in this case, if you intentionally exposed your firearm you would be in violation. You had time to drive yourself to the hospital and remove your weapon and store it, so you did the right thing. If you had been in an accident or unconscious and they find your weapon, then you would not be intentionally exposing it and not in violation. Caveat IANAL, but played one in a school play once.

I would think another option would be to place your gun in a carry bag of some kind (purse if you're a woman - soft-side briefcase, backpack if you're a man). That way you still have it, but don't risk revealing it when you reveal you injury.

[mr.72]

Well in my case, I couldn't drive myself to the hospital because I had to keep pressure on this cut on my back and it really did limit my mobility. I had a heck of a time locking the gun in the car (at another location). I had to reveal to another person that I was carrying in order to get assistance getting my trunk open and then I just put the gun and holster together into the trunk of the car and locked it. This was just not a cool thing anyway. Would have been far easier to just go to the hospital and wait until they bandaged my back before having to contend with disarming, but I guess I figured I'd rather not have them go "oh no a GUN!!! CALL 911!!" as soon as I got there and took my shirt off.