Brother Disgusted With Kimber Tac Pro- With Pics

[Aggie_engr]

My brother has bought 3 guns from this shop before, the tac pro being the fourth, and they were all great guns. I told my brother last night to get the number to the place and tell them about it asap. He called this morning and told them what was going on with the gun and they said to bring it in on monday (they are at a gun show this weekend) and they would take care of it, since it obviously hasn't been fired yet.

I have had my kimber since I started carrying and have had no problems with it, and I am confident that my take down procedure is correct. Anyone with two eyes can see that you can't push the slide on while depressing the grip safety. The little pin was damaged on the opposite side (refer to pic), facing the hammer so it is not damage from incorrect reassembly. I don't know why but it is hanging on something because I can rack the slide without the grip safety depressed and it funcitons just fine everytime, and I doubt a little oil will fix it.

I also noticed the feed ramp job and asked about it? The guy at the store didn't know where it came from? I told my brother to tell them he wants to return it and have a new one ordered from kimber, as I would not fool with this gun anymore for the money he paid.

[AEA]

The store knows where it got the gun from. It is the Law for them to know.

[Aggie_engr]

I just made a call to kimber and received great tech support. As for the feed ramp polishing, he said that is a factory job done by kimber. Secondly, the gun just left the factory one week ago so it is as fresh as it gets. He said they would send ups out to the house or a place of business to pick it up. I asked him to just please hang on to the work order until my brother figures out what the gun shop is going to do (replace with entire new gun preferrably). So I will know by monday what he will do and report back for those interested.

[gemini]

Man, my first thought when I look at some of those photos is that is far from a brand-new pistol. It looks like somebody other than Kimber did a manual fluff-and-buff on the chamber feed ramp, the metal in the last two pics actually looks scored and pitted (even on external, non-contact portions of the frame), and those grips look like they're several years old and have seen rough times. You could show me that last photo and tell me the gun had seen over 20,000 rounds and less-than-careful care, and I'd believe you.

The Kimber quasi-Swartz safety has, in my experience, been pretty much a non-issue in guns that are well-maintained. But there are two conditions that can cause problems.

The first is maintenance. The firing-pin block itself is in the top of the slide, but the small pin your photos highlight is, well, just that: a small pin that presses up into the firing-pin block to release it. A lever, that is not spring-loaded, pushes the little actuator up to release the block. Like any small part, or sequence of small parts, it's subject to fouling by gunk and junk. If it's got crud around it, it can hang in the "up" position. IMHO, it would take a lot of crud to cause it to stick "up," but if it were to do so, firing the pistol while it was in that condition would almost certainly damage the pin...perhaps bending or abrading it enough that it would no longer function properly and continue to display the symptoms described.

(You mentioned "factory oil all over it"; was the gun disassembled, inspected, and thoroughly cleaned and lubed before firing? Was this purchased at a reputable gun store as a NIB pistol?)

The second condition is improper assembly. If someone doesn't understand that the grip safety must not be depressed while placing the slide on the frame, understandable frustration might ensue. If the person tries to slam the slide home repeatedly, even though he is still holding down the grip safety (or even, as I once saw, try hammering the front of the slide onto a tabletop to attempt to force it into position), the pin might also be damaged.

I've never heard of the pin being damaged in a gun shipped new from Kimber.

If it was field stripped/cleaned prior to the first firing (as advised) maybe your brother was activating the grip safety during disassembly or reassembly. That's a no-no. Also, reassembling the slide upside down allows the FPS to protrude out of the frame thus
causing a problem. I'm sure if it is a manufacturing problem (or not) Dennis at Kimber will make it right. If all else fails....and I'm not advising you to alter a factory gun for carry purposes.... pull the schwartz system....use a series 70 FP etc.

03Lightningrocks....send it back....let Kimber issue you a call slip from UPS....

I own 2 Kimbers. 1 was sent back with a small issue, been 100% ever since. 1 has been perfect right from the box. Both are very accurate. Both are in a carry rotation with other 1911's. I don't own any guns I don't trust. Get yours fixed, learn to do minor maintenance/tuning, check it for accuracy and function, and if you're still not happy get rid of it. Good luck.

[03Lightningrocks]

03Lightningrocks....send it back....let Kimber issue you a call slip from UPS....

Yep...that is what I'm gonna have to do. I can't complain about their customer service one bit. they have been all over the issue. I am just a bit bummed out about having to send it in.

[Skiprr]

I just made a call to kimber and received great tech support. As for the feed ramp polishing, he said that is a factory job done by kimber. Secondly, the gun just left the factory one week ago so it is as fresh as it gets.

Wow. Color me surprised. A week ago? How the heck did the grips get so mangled? I've had seven Kimber .45s, six purchased new, and on none of them did the feed ramp polishing look as asymmetric as on that gun. And was it just the photo, or did you see metal pitting on the slide and frame, almost as if from an acid or other corrosive?

If the dealer does a straight-up replacement (which for some reason I have a sneaky feeling he will) we'll never get further info about this gun or its history. But I'd love to know what Kimber would have to say if they received the gun from your brother. I agree with HV: this just doesn't look like it's straight-from-factory; somebody's messed with it.

I sincerely hope your brother gets a totally new replacement that operates like silk for him.

[Oldgringo]

It still sounds like there are a a lot of start-up problems for a gun with as high a front end cost as a Kimber?

I've thrown more than a few various reloads through my pre-owned Kimber without major problems other than the empties are where you find 'em.

[dicion]

The second condition is improper assembly. If someone doesn't understand that the grip safety must not be depressed while placing the slide on the frame, understandable frustration might ensue. If the person tries to slam the slide home repeatedly, even though he is still holding down the grip safety (or even, as I once saw, try hammering the front of the slide onto a tabletop to attempt to force it into position), the pin might also be damaged.

And I believe someone has forced the slide with the grip safety engaged and damaged the FP Safety plunger pin. Possibly more than once.

If it was field stripped/cleaned prior to the first firing (as advised) maybe your brother was activating the grip safety during disassembly or reassembly. That's a no-no. Also, reassembling the slide upside down allows the FPS to protrude out of the frame thus

Thats exactly what it looks like. The pin got slammed by the slide, and bent or mal-formed, and now is not receeding properly.

Also, no way is that Kimber new. I have an Ultra Carry I just purchased new, and compared, that looks like it's taken a year of hard abuse.

I'll take some pics of my Kimber Firing Pin lock assembly for comparison and post them.

EDIT: Here are pics I took of mine, just now. Please excuse the lint :P.. thats from me wearing it around the house =D
http://dicion.net/kimberpin/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I left them full-res so you can see all the fine details. This Kimber has ~150 rounds down the tube.


Also.. I just noticed, here:



The Pin never goes back that far in normal operation. It goes back to that silver spring-loaded firing pin block only. When fired, the slide moves BACK, moving the pin FORWARD in relative to that position. So that mark is Not caused by the Firing pin block.

A Firing pin block Stuck in the UP Position during firing will only Disable the pin safety, even with the grip safety out, not keep it from returning to battery, unless the pin was catching on that silver spring loaded pin safety thing on the slide. (See Circled Red in Picture)



Think about it, during normal operation, the grip safety is HELD depressed for the full cycle of firing multiple rounds. It was designed to be held in the 'up' position the entire time during firing.

Check the actual spring loaded pin block in the slide (In the above pic). Maybe IT's catching on something, and not going into the slide properly, preventing it from returning to battery.

I may not be a gunsmith, but I deal with moving machinery, and troubleshooting all day long :) Just gotta understand how it's exactly supposed to function first, then find what can cause it not to function in the way you are experiencing :)

[Aggie_engr]

Brother talked to gun shop today and they are ordering him a new gun from kimber! Now let's see if this one can cut the mustard...

[Skiprr]

Several of us have opined that the photos you provided looked like a used-and-abused gun. Even the grips were obviously not those of a NIB gun's.

Care to comment?

[USA1]

Several of us have opined that the photos you provided looked like a used-and-abused gun. Even the grips were obviously not those of a NIB gun's.

Care to comment?

yeahhh..what are you hiding ?

[The Annoyed Man]

Several of us have opined that the photos you provided looked like a used-and-abused gun. Even the grips were obviously not those of a NIB gun's.

Care to comment?

Yes, thank you. . . .

You can't really tell anything about the grips from the provided photos. I went back to the photos and looked and looked and looked. I'm not seein' it. The grips look fine to me - as much as you can see of them in pictures that aren't really pictures of the grips, but some other parts of the gun. In the first two pictures, the back surface of the slide is the focal point of the picture, and since it is a macro shot, the left grip panel in the picture is out of focus. In the third and fourth photos, the right grip panel shown is partly in shadow, and the picture is from a fairly oblique angle relative to the grip panel. And on the last picture, the left grip panel is shot from an oblique angle, and we can't see very much of it.

Personally, I would not care to render any kind of opinion about the condition of this gun's grip panels based on these pictures. If the OP was willing to provide in focus full on grip panel pictures, one could draw a more informed opinion, but he's under no obligation to do so. OP states at the top of page 2 of this thread that A) his brother has purchased three other guns from this vendor, so he is obviously not inexperienced with guns; and B) that the OP himself has carried a Kimber since he first started carrying, and hence he obviously ought to be able to tell for himself the difference between what an NIB Kimber ought to look like, particularly the gips, and what a used-and-abused gun looks like.

Of course, none of that has anything to do with whether or not his brother incorrectly tried to remount the slide with the grip safety depressed and damaged the pin that releases the firing pin block.

Just my 2¢.

[03Lightningrocks]

Several of us have opined that the photos you provided looked like a used-and-abused gun. Even the grips were obviously not those of a NIB gun's.

Care to comment?

Yes, thank you. . . .

You can't really tell anything about the grips from the provided photos. I went back to the photos and looked and looked and looked. I'm not seein' it. The grips look fine to me - as much as you can see of them in pictures that aren't really pictures of the grips, but some other parts of the gun. In the first two pictures, the back surface of the slide is the focal point of the picture, and since it is a macro shot, the left grip panel in the picture is out of focus. In the third and fourth photos, the right grip panel shown is partly in shadow, and the picture is from a fairly oblique angle relative to the grip panel. And on the last picture, the left grip panel is shot from an oblique angle, and we can't see very much of it.

Personally, I would not care to render any kind of opinion about the condition of this gun's grip panels based on these pictures. If the OP was willing to provide in focus full on grip panel pictures, one could draw a more informed opinion, but he's under no obligation to do so. OP states at the top of page 2 of this thread that A) his brother has purchased three other guns from this vendor, so he is obviously not inexperienced with guns; and B) that the OP himself has carried a Kimber since he first started carrying, and hence he obviously ought to be able to tell for himself the difference between what an NIB Kimber ought to look like, particularly the gips, and what a used-and-abused gun looks like.

Of course, none of that has anything to do with whether or not his brother incorrectly tried to remount the slide with the grip safety depressed and damaged the pin that releases the firing pin block.

Just my 2¢.

[Liberty]

Several of us have opined that the photos you provided looked like a used-and-abused gun. Even the grips were obviously not those of a NIB gun's.

Care to comment?

yeahhh..what are you hiding ?

Unwritten rules :
1: Thou shall not curse Kimbers, because they don't work out of the box. People don't work real well until they mature either.
2: Thou shall offer burnt offerings of powder and lead to the holy name of John Moses Brown and his 1911
3: Thou shalt not corrupt the purity of steel with unholy plastic.
4: Thou shall never mention that you can outshoot your neighbor with your $200 dollar gun than he with his $1000 gun.
5: Thou shall wear the prettiest of guns even if it is to be concealed.
6: Remember the number 45 and keep it holy for all the days of your life.
7: Thou shall curse the number 9 and those who hold it dearly
8: Thou shalt abstain from the Glock and those who hold all things Glock as pure.
9: The sin of failure is never the 1911 for it is pure, the operator must surely be of blame.
10: Thou shall preach "bigger is better than more" for all the days of your life.

I Hope this helps.

[dicion]

Hey! How'd you get that list!

I thought I was the only one that had it framed and hanging on my wall next to my JMB Shrine?

Lol... it's good though.

But you know that the Glockaholics are just as bad on their side of the fence as we 1911ers are on ours