Legal To Carry At Freedom Over Texas?

[Kawabuggy]

I plan on attending this event this evening with the family and was wondering what the likelihood would be that they would be posted 30.06. From their web site here:
http://www.houstontx.gov/july4/rulesregs.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; it clearly states "No Weapons". Since we will be walking quite a distance from the designated parking area to get to the festival area, I would hate to have to walk back to the car, and then back again should they have the proper signage. Does the "No Weapons" posting on the web site qualify as verbal notification?

Thanks everyone and HAPPY 4TH!

[Charles L. Cotton]

If it's on government property, they cannot prohibit CHL's from carrying. The only possible exception might deal with the sale of alcohol and 51% locations within the perimeter, but I can't imagine how that would work over such a large area. Stephen would be far better qualified to comment on TABC issues.

Chas.

[C-dub]

It might be on University of Houston property. I'm not familiar with the area, but this is what I can tell from the website.

So, unless one were to enter a building it would be okay for a CHLer to carry?

[Charles L. Cotton]

If it's on Univ. Houston property then it you would not be able to carry. It would be a school sponsored event so even the grounds would be off-limits per Tex. Penal Code §46.03(a)(1).

Chas.


Edited: The website says Eleanor Tinsley Park and that's not U/H. Thanks for bring it up though, I hadn't thought about the possibility of all or part if it being on a school grounds.

[C-dub]

After checking the website's list of sponsors it appears that the U.H. is a sponsor, but not a major sponsor. The whole thing seems to be put on by the City of Houston with many sponsors.

Would this still mean no? I usually err on the cautious side when I'm not sure.

[Kawabuggy]

The event is taking place at Eleanor Tinsley park. An outdoor event that to my knowledge is NOT located on any schools property. I "think" the park is city owned/operated.

[C-dub]

Well, that changes things. The website also talks about Liberty Park. Are they close or across the street from each other?

My bad. Sorry.

[boomerang]

There's a Liberty Park in East Houston but I don't think that's what they mean.

At the park between Memorial and Allen Pkwy, the "Bud Zone" may be 51% but I doubt the whole park can be. But I would respect their no weapons prejudices and spend my freedom-loving money somewhere else. Somewhere more in the spirit of the holiday.

You can see the fireworks from far outside Mayor Bill White's anti-freedom zone.

[flb_78]

I don't see why you couldn't carry.

but this would stop me from going.

EXPECTED ATTENDANCE
Gated attendance: 100,000

[srothstein]

Kind of late for my info, but I will give some general advice on TABC.

Almost all festivals of this type get a temporary permit. This is written to cover the whole grounds since this will allow the customers to walk around with their beers. The problem is that many times the permittee gets a 51% permit since they (the beer vendor) meets the requirements of getting their income from the beer. The festival itself does not meet the 51% rule but the whole place then gets covered by the permit.

This is the same problem we have with bowling alleys and similar contracted vendors. The vendor meets the 51% rule but the overall premise does not. The permit covers the whole premise to allow customers to conveniently drink while enjoying the facility. After winning the rule about making the signs required (or the lack being a defense), this is one of the next laws we need to work on. We need to change the 51% rule to specify all vendors in the area covered by the permit. I think it is a low priority (not sure how many places are really affected by it) but we need to start planning for it.

[Fangs]

That's what I ran into at Fiesta in San Antonio... I figured that surely they couldn't 51% the whole outside, and since I wasn't planning on drinking I would just keep myself out of the bars. It was a long walk to the car and back.

[boomerang]

46.035 says in black and white that "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building so the law seems pretty clear that outdoor festivals, even with a 51% license, are not off limit for someone with a CHL as long as they stay out of buildings.

[srothstein]

Boomerang,

The problem with your answer is the conflict between the Alcoholic Beverage Code and the Penal Code on the definition of premises. I do not know which way it will go now, since all previous cases were based on the unlawfully carrying laws and before this definition of premises was included.

I like to think you are correct and the appeals courts will take the Penal Code definition of premises, since it is the newer definition and specifically written for that case, but I do not guarantee it. I think most DA's would go with the current legal thought on the ABC definition, as will most trial courts. I would not recommend testing either one either way.

[boomerang]

Steve,

I looked at the Alcoholic Beverage Code and it won't bother me if they use the ABC definition of premises to cancel or suspend the alcohol license of the festival.

I don't plan on being a test case. Concealed means concealed. I also usually boycott places that have a no guns policy. But knowing what 46.035 says in black and white about the definition of premises in that section, I carry outdoors with a clear conscience.