Heard the funniest thing the other day

Venus Pax · Post by **Venus Pax** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:47 am

I was camping with friends the last few days. One said that his dad, who trained new recruits in the military, recommended keeping the chamber empty on semi-autos and the first chamber in a revolver empty "incase a kid got ahold of it."
My argument to him was that if the kid pulled the trigger, she/he would assume the gun was unloaded and may point the gun at self or someone else and shoot more. This argument actually irritated my friend. He was angry that I would dare disagree with his father's advice, which I find foolish.
What do you think?

fadlan12 · Post by **fadlan12** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:53 am

Always treat a gun like its loaded , everything else is irelevent.

Venus Pax · Post by **Venus Pax** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:57 am

I keep all guns loaded. I can't, however, expect a child to know that a gun is loaded "except for one round".

Paladin · Post by **Paladin** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:59 am

Or they could try carrying the guns so the kid's wouldn't 'get ahold of it'

longtooth · Post by **longtooth** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:31 am

Totally agree. Foolish reasoning. Yours is good. Answer. Keep it loaded, ready, cocked & locked, on your side or in your reach & sight. Kids or adults can't get it then. Good job.

nitrogen · Post by **nitrogen** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:48 am

Venus Pax wrote:I keep all guns loaded. I can't, however, expect a child to know that a gun is loaded "except for one round".

Shouldn't matter.

If you see a gun:

STOP!
Don't Touch.
Leave the Area.
Tell an Adult.

That's all they need to know.

KBCraig · Post by **KBCraig** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:57 am

It's especially foolish in the case of the revolver. Pull the trigger... click. Pull the trigger again, bang!

txinvestigator · Post by **txinvestigator** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:18 pm

As the father of a 10 year old daughter who has been shooting for 4 years, I have pretty strong opinions on this.

You can't "hide" a gun from a kid. Kids find hidden guns often. As adults we have 2 obligations regsrding kids and guns.

1. Teach them about guns. Before my daughter was old enough to shoot she had been to a range with me. She saw the recoil, heard the report (with ear protection, of course) and saw the destruction. We shot water bottles and watermelon.

Kid's only reality is that which they have observed. They have no inate knowledge that firearms can kill. All they know is that Buggs Bunny gets shot and lives.

We have to teach them the 4 firearm safety rules. (My child must recite them to before each range session or no shooting that day. I'm not mad at her, it just means her head is not where it needs to be.)

We have to teach them what to do if they are someplace and a gun is discovered or if someone produces one. (see Nitrogen's post).

Teach them that they should only handle firearms in an adults presence and with that adults permission and supervision.

2. We have to take steps to insure that kids do not access our readily dischargable firearm (Texas Penal Code term). My daughter is smart, exhibits safe handling and follows the rules. I have tested her by trying to hand her a gun that I cleared outside of her presence, but had the action closed. SHe refuses to accept it unless the action is open. Does that mean I trust her? HECK NO!, She is 10 years old. Her safety and the security of the weapon is MY responsibility.

But thats just my $.02

Post by **Crossfire** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:18 pm

nitrogen wrote: Shouldn't matter.

If you see a gun:

STOP!
Don't Touch.
Leave the Area.
Tell an Adult.

That's all they need to know.

I could just hear you singing that! Were you doing the little dance too as you were typing?

OverEasy · Post by **OverEasy** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:33 pm

Venus Pax,
I agree with you and Nitrogen. Keep em loaded, ready to go and out of the hands of children and idiots.

Revolvers: In the old days they kept the chamber UNDER the hammer empty to prevent an accidental discharge if the gun was dropped.

Now if you kept the chamber UNDER the hammer empty it would go BANG when you pulled the trigger because the cylinder rotates as you pull the trigger.

My S&W rotates the cylinder counterclockwise as you pull the trigger.
My Charter Arms rotates the cylinder clockwise as you pull the trigger.
You would have to leave the empty chamber to the right or left of the hammer depending on which gun it was, to prevent it from going off when the trigger was pulled.

All guns are always loaded and everybody is an idiot!! Works for Me!

OE

therooster · Post by **therooster** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:13 pm

txinvestigator wrote:As the father of a 10 year old daughter who has been shooting for 4 years, I have pretty strong opinions on this.

You can't "hide" a gun from a kid. Kids find hidden guns often. As adults we have 2 obligations regsrding kids and guns.

1. Teach them about guns. Before my daughter was old enough to shoot she had been to a range with me. She saw the recoil, heard the report (with ear protection, of course) and saw the destruction. We shot water bottles and watermelon.

Kid's only reality is that which they have observed. They have no inate knowledge that firearms can kill. All they know is that Buggs Bunny gets shot and lives.

We have to teach them the 4 firearm safety rules. (My child must recite them to before each range session or no shooting that day. I'm not mad at her, it just means her head is not where it needs to be.)

We have to teach them what to do if they are someplace and a gun is discovered or if someone produces one. (see Nitrogen's post).

Teach them that they should only handle firearms in an adults presence and with that adults permission and supervision.

2. We have to take steps to insure that kids do not access our readily dischargable firearm (Texas Penal Code term). My daughter is smart, exhibits safe handling and follows the rules. I have tested her by trying to hand her a gun that I cleared outside of her presence, but had the action closed. SHe refuses to accept it unless the action is open. Does that mean I trust her? HECK NO!, She is 10 years old. Her safety and the security of the weapon is MY responsibility.

But thats just my $.02

+1

as a parent you are a teacher and a leader. the best leaders lead by example, and the best teachers teach by example and repetition.

on another note, the more you treat a child like an adult... the more he/she will act like an adult.

Venus Pax · Post by **Venus Pax** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:14 pm

This guy told me that he has his guns where his kid "can't find them." I informed him that a kid can find anything.
I recommended the touch combination boxes that you can access in the dark within a few seconds. I think these things are great. You can keep the gun loaded WITHOUT safety on and in the box, ready to go when needed.
I knew when I told him he would argue with me on it, but I didn't feel right NOT telling him, considering he has a six-year-old.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:45 pm

Ditto. By the time was 10 years old, I knew where everything was hidden in my house. I found stuff that my parents didn't know they had (my father's family had been living there for about 40 years).

The father of my friend across the street had a trophy pistol and dagger from WW II. The boy used to take them out and show them to me when his parents weren't home, even though he wasn't supposed to touch them.

I lock up my firearms when we have people over. It's not just kids. Adults can be idiots.

- Jim

kw5kw · Post by **kw5kw** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:03 pm

nitrogen wrote:
Venus Pax wrote:I keep all guns loaded. I can't, however, expect a child to know that a gun is loaded "except for one round".
Shouldn't matter.

If you see a gun:

STOP!
Don't Touch.
Leave the Area.
Tell an Adult.

That's all they need to know.

+!

TXinvestigator; I also taught (my now 32 & 30 yo daughters) about guns when they were children. They shot them, they knew what they could do and what they were for. I did not let them play 'doom' or 'quake' but did allow them to play 'mario brothers'. We played another game that when your character died, that was it, there was no reseting and going on--at least until the game had an eventual winner. They also understood that movies and television are shows produced by actors and that when they 'died' on the screen, they could come back as another character in another movie or tv show.

They first learned about death when their dog "Nicky" passed on then they learnt about death once again when their great-grandmother passed on in '87. They learnt that when someone dies, they are forever gone in this world, but we'll see them again in the next.

Now my oldest loves guns and has a Glock 19. She's fixing to take her CHL class at the end of this month, and she's (and her husband) has already been to Gunsite in Arizona for their '250' course. He's going back in October for their '350' course.

My youngest, on the other hand, wants absolutely nothing to do with guns, for she had one stuck in her face by one of her high-school boyfriends. He scared her good, and she wishes to have absolutely nothing to do with them. I didn't know this for years, that is until 2001 when she was down for a visit and I went in and pulled out my (new at that time) little KT P-32, which was the first gun that I'd had for over a decade. (I'd sold all of my guns to buy ham radio's back in the early '90's.) That was when she froze--'scared half to death.' I took the gun out of the room then she told me of the *event* with said ex boyfriend and I respect her wishes. Maybe one of these days she'll realize that if she'd had a weapon she could have possibly prevented that.

This just goes to reinforce that you never know who is and who isn't... who has and who has not. Who will and who will not pull a weapon. I know that if she'd asked me for one then and explained why, I would have gone to that boy's daddy and then he would have faced the music from his parents end. Then maybe... just maybe his father might have allowed me to take a crack at him.

But, that was then, and this is now.

I've forgiven him, so that God can forgive both me and him.

Venus Pax · Post by **Venus Pax** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:10 pm

Wow, kw. It sounds like she is still really shaken up from that.
I'm glad you forgave the boyfriend. Bitterness only hurts the soul that is bitter.
I do think it would be good for her to talk to a counselor or pastor. It sounds like she's still hurting.