Bullet remained in barrel - Followup

[ntexaschl]

This is a followup from a previous thread of mine. Below is the thread.

Hi Forum. I had something unusual happen last night. I field stripped my Glock 30, dabbed a few drops of oil on the rails, and then reassembled it. I inserted the fully loaded 10 rd magazine and then racked the slide. I heard a strange sound...like a "ping" or something like that. I decided I'd better open the slide and investigate. I couldn't rake the slide at first. I had to grasp the pistol very firmly and pull rather hard on the slide to open it. Out pops an empty unfired shell casing. The bullet remained in the barrel. It was easily removed from the barrel, though. So, I unloaded the remaining 9 rds from the magazine. Holding each round one at a time, between my left thumb and forefinger, I was able to press the bullet of 3 of those rounds into it's casing about 1/8". This is Remington Golden Saber ammo. I bought this ammo about 2 yrs ago. What gives? Is this maybe an extreme example of bullet setback? Is the ammo just too old? Should I toss the remainder? What would be the proper method of disposition? Thanks for your help.

Various comments/explanations/suggestions were offered by Forum members, and, they were appreciated. Today, via Fedex, I received a new box of Remington Golden Sabers. Remington also provided an explanation with regards to the bullet situation. It is the following:

"We apologize for the problems you had with our Remington Golden Saver .45 Auto ammunition. (sic) It appears the rounds you sent in were deep seated, therefore causing them to be shorter than our process limits. This was the result of an improper machine setup, allowing the bullets to seat deeper than Remington or SAAMI limits. These rounds should have been caught before they left the factory.

We work hard to provide quality products for all our customers. In our Centerfire product line, our loading processes are checked and tracked during the full production run by Production employees and a special support group working out of our Ballistics laboratory. Powder weights, bullet pull forces and guaging are only part of the process. Additionally, ammunition is tested every shift in both test guns and a variety of pistols for verification of safe and reliable function.

To make up for our error, we are sending you a replacement box of 45 Auto Golden Saber ammunition. We appreciate you choosing Remington products and hope you will in the future."

I think that their CS dep't. handled the situation well. I'll continue to purchase Remington products.

[particle]

How would a "deep seated" bullet get stuck in the barrel? I would think that would only happen if the bullet wasn't seated deeply enough, and got forced too far into the barrel, thus putting too much friction on the bullet and allowing it to be extracted from the case upon ejection.

Maybe I missed something... Anyway, glad they sent you a new box.

[Excaliber]

How would a "deep seated" bullet get stuck in the barrel? I would think that would only happen if the bullet wasn't seated deeply enough, and got forced too far into the barrel, thus putting too much friction on the bullet and allowing it to be extracted from the case upon ejection.

Maybe I missed something... Anyway, glad they sent you a new box.

I agree that the explanation doesn't jive with the observation.

The fact that significantly out of spec ammo made it past their quality checks also suggests there's a gap there that needs to be identified and closed.

While Remington met their minimal obligation to the purchaser by replacing the box of ammo, I would have thought that the situation would have merited a few more free boxes for their customer's trouble.

[E10]

I use Golden Sabers in both my Berettas (9000S 9mm & 84 .380), but I never load a round by racking the slide - I load the first round directly into the chamber, ease the slide forward into battery, decock, and then insert a full magazine. I do believe your rounds were improperly assembled, but even properly crimped bullets can be 'set back' by repeated impact with the feeding ramp. I think, 'Why risk it?'

Perhaps the defective rounds suffered from setback and it loosened their crimp even more. A full-force loading of a round propelled by the recoil spring could give a loose bullet just enough momentum to continue moving forward after the casing stopped, and engage the rifling just enough to trap it in the bore when the casing was extracted.

[Liberty]

I use Golden Sabers in both my Berettas (9000S 9mm & 84 .380), but I never load a round by racking the slide - I load the first round directly into the chamber, ease the slide forward into battery, decock, and then insert a full magazine. I do believe your rounds were improperly assembled, but even properly crimped bullets can be 'set back' by repeated impact with the feeding ramp. I think, 'Why risk it?'

Perhaps the defective rounds suffered from setback and it loosened their crimp even more. A full-force loading of a round propelled by the recoil spring could give a loose bullet just enough momentum to continue moving forward after the casing stopped, and engage the rifling just enough to trap it in the bore when the casing was extracted.

There was a big thread on here about loading a handgun in the way you suggest, on some guns its OK and even suggested by the manufacturer, on others it can cause severe wear on the ejector.

[barres]

I use Golden Sabers in both my Berettas (9000S 9mm & 84 .380), but I never load a round by racking the slide - I load the first round directly into the chamber, ease the slide forward into battery, decock, and then insert a full magazine. I do believe your rounds were improperly assembled, but even properly crimped bullets can be 'set back' by repeated impact with the feeding ramp. I think, 'Why risk it?'

Perhaps the defective rounds suffered from setback and it loosened their crimp even more. A full-force loading of a round propelled by the recoil spring could give a loose bullet just enough momentum to continue moving forward after the casing stopped, and engage the rifling just enough to trap it in the bore when the casing was extracted.

There was a big thread on here about loading a handgun in the way you suggest, on some guns its OK and even suggested by the manufacturer, on others it can cause severe wear on the ejector.

I do believe that Liberty meant to say the extractor, not the ejector.

[StewNTexas]

My guess would be that upon loading the round, the bullet was pressed into the brass enough so that the firing pin could not/would not hit the primer. This would cause a gap between the bolt face and would probably not allow the extracter to catch onto the brass.

[Excaliber]

My guess would be that upon loading the round, the bullet was pressed into the brass enough so that the firing pin could not/would not hit the primer. This would cause a gap between the bolt face and would probably not allow the extracter to catch onto the brass.

This is not consistent with the info in the original post for a couple of reasons.

First, the .45ACP headspaces on the front of the cartridge case against a fixed stop inside the chamber. There is no way for the brass to move forward of that point.

Second, the OP reported that the unfired case ejected when he racked the slide. This could only happen if the extractor had engaged the case rim.

My theory is that the projectile was not loaded sufficiently deeply into the case, resulting in an overlength cartridge. This would cause the projectile to be forced partially into the bore rifling when the slide drove the cartridge home to the point where the case mouth headspaced on the chamber stop. Friction between the projectile and the bore would have held the bullet in place when an attempt was made to retract the slide, making it very difficult to do so. When the friction was overcome, the unfired case would come out and leave the bullet stuck in the bore. This is consistent with the circumstances ntexaschl reported.

[Liberty]

I use Golden Sabers in both my Berettas (9000S 9mm & 84 .380), but I never load a round by racking the slide - I load the first round directly into the chamber, ease the slide forward into battery, decock, and then insert a full magazine. I do believe your rounds were improperly assembled, but even properly crimped bullets can be 'set back' by repeated impact with the feeding ramp. I think, 'Why risk it?'

Perhaps the defective rounds suffered from setback and it loosened their crimp even more. A full-force loading of a round propelled by the recoil spring could give a loose bullet just enough momentum to continue moving forward after the casing stopped, and engage the rifling just enough to trap it in the bore when the casing was extracted.

There was a big thread on here about loading a handgun in the way you suggest, on some guns its OK and even suggested by the manufacturer, on others it can cause severe wear on the ejector.

I do believe that Liberty meant to say the extractor, not the ejector.

You are correct