n vs n+1

[android]

I've got some questions about n+1 rounds.

First, I'm assuming the correct way to do this from a cleared handgun is to load the magazine, insert it and load one. Decock if necessary, eject the mag, load the remaining round into the mag and then insert it back into the gun.

Clearing would be drop the mag and the rack the slide and retrieve the ejected round.

So, if you do this on a regular basis, and are unloading either to shoot different ammo or for cleaning, dry firing or whatever, then you are going to be rotating the top two rounds in the magazine while the others remain happily below. Is there any long term negative to this? Should all the rounds be taken out and scrambled on a regular basis?

Thanks,

[seamusTX]

That's one way to do it.

I prefer to start with two fully charged magazines. Insert one magazine. Release the slide. Drop the mag. Insert the other fully charged mag. Holster. Safe the pistol according to the manual. Add a round to the first mag.

This method does not require you to set down a loaded pistol while you charge a magazine.

Repeatedly chambering a round can result in bullet setback, which can lead to overpressure, damaged pistols, and personal injury.

One way to avoid this is to fire the top couple of rounds when you practice. That also assures you that you didn't somehow end up with dud ammo in your carry magazines.

[Edited to add putting the pistol on safe. I'm too used to a DAO with no manual safety.]

- Jim

[couzin]

n vs n+1

I hate algebra!! There are three kinds of math people in the world - those that can add, and those that can't!

What was the question?

[Mithras61]

n vs n+1

I hate algebra!! There are three kinds of math people in the world - those that can add, and those that can't!

What was the question?

'taint so! There are 10 kinds of people in the world! Those who understand binary and those who don't!

[stevie_d_64]

n vs n+1

I hate algebra!! There are three kinds of math people in the world - those that can add, and those that can't!

What was the question?

'taint so! There are 10 kinds of people in the world! Those who understand binary and those who don't!

00111001010001101110

[jimlongley]

n vs n+1

I hate algebra!! There are three kinds of math people in the world - those that can add, and those that can't!

What was the question?

'taint so! There are 10 kinds of people in the world! Those who understand binary and those who don't!

00111001010001101110

Ah, yes, the new stuff, back when I was a pup, we only had ones to work with, no zeroes.


I used to use the "There's only 10 kinds . . ." as an intro to my class that included binary. It was fun to see people who hadn't gotten it yet, finally get it somehwere during the first day, and it was a shame to see the one or two who still didn't after the class ended.

[WEC]

That's one way to do it.

I prefer to start with two fully charged magazines. Insert one magazine. Release the slide. Drop the mag. Insert the other fully charged mag. Holster. Add a round to the first mag.

This method does not require you to set down a loaded pistol while you charge a magazine.

Repeatedly chambering a round can result in bullet setback, which can lead to overpressure, damaged pistols, and personal injury.

One way to avoid this is to fire the top couple of rounds when you practice. That also assures you that you didn't somehow end up with dud ammo in your carry magazines.

- Jim

Interesting method, Jim. I never thought about that, but thanks for the education. As far as setback goes, there are some threads discussing it that you may want to read, android. It definitely opened my eyes. These days when I take one of my HD/PD guns for target shooting, I just unload the magazine and randomize the rounds. I'm also closely examining the rounds as I reload the magazine as well as the +1 round to ensure that there is no setback.

[ELB]

How I does it....

Starting with empty pistol:

1. Insert full mag, rack slide briskly.

2. Chamber check. If no round in chamber, go back to step one

3. HOLSTER PISTOL (including shirt sweep to make sure it's not tangle up in the holster).

4. Withdraw magazine from pistol without taking pistol out of holster. This lets you have two hands free to work with the magazine, and keeps the pistol safe and secure.

5. Top up magazine with another round. (of course you can skip this now and use another full mag for the next step, but sooner or later you have to top it up.)

6. Re-insert magazine firmly, until it clicks. TUG FIRMLY on magazine to make sure it is in fact seated. This is important.

7. If you like, you can insert chamber check here at the end instead of at step 2, but of course this means drawing and holstering again.

How I clear:
1. Face safe direction, draw pistol.

2. Withdraw magazine and stow. If accidentally drop the magazine on the ground, LET IT FALL. Don't pick it up yet.

3. Turn ejection port towards ground and RACK BRISKLY. Let the round FALL ON THE GROUND (as opposed to trying to catch it). Rack it again just to be sure. (note: I turn sideways with muzzle down range, bring pistol in close to chest where i am strongest, and cup left hand over top of slide WITHOUT covering ejection port. Some people "slingshot." I think this inherently provides less grip on the slide.)

4. (Facing down range) Lock slide back and CHAMBER CHECK WITH FINGER to make sure it is empty

5. Holster pistol. Pistol will holster just fine with slide locked back.

6. Now pick up the ejected round (when pistol is safely secured in holster, not in your hand where you may inadvertently point it awkwardly when bending over). Also, if you dropped the magazine, now is the time to pick it up. If others are present, make sure everyone has holstered before picking stuff up off the ground.

If you are down a few rounds after firing (let's say while you are practicing), you can holster your pistol at the line, back off, and safely top up the magazine while wandering around behind the line by leaving the pistol in the holster and simply withdrawing the magazine only. You can also swap in a full one as Seamus does, but either way, your pistol is secure in the holster, your hands are free, and you can use both hands safely to do stuff.

Some commercial ranges don't allow use of holster -- I simply do not go to those places any more. Holstering a loaded pistol is far safer than messing around with clearing a pistol and laying it down -- much less manipulation of the pistol = less chance to ND.

As for the top two rounds -- I do not unload and load my pistol all that often, except to shoot it and clean it. The loaded pistol goes into it's special place at night, and back into my holster (after a chamber check) in the morning. So I do not worry much about bullet setback from cycling rounds.

I think the most important part of the whole process is FOCUS ONLY on loading or clearing the pistol. Don't be yakking to others, don't watch TV with one eye, don't be thinking about what you are going to do AFTER you're done with the pistol. A lapse of attention may let you skip a step without knowing it and you end up with a round in the chamber you didn't expect. Guns are always loaded of course, but many pistols require you to pull the trigger just to field strip it for cleaning, or you may be clearing the gun to do some dry fire. Bad news to find you accidentally skipped a step.

[mossytxn]

I echo the above procedures with one minor change:

Use an empty mag for the +1. It's a lot easier to top off the first round in an empty mag than trying to shove that last round in a full mag.

I have the full mag on stand by, load the +1, drop the empty mag and add the full one.

Call me lazy, but that's how I roll.

[Keith B]

I echo the above procedures with one minor change:

Use an empty mag for the +1. It's a lot easier to top off the first round in an empty mag than trying to shove that last round in a full mag.

I have the full mag on stand by, load the +1, drop the empty mag and add the full one.

Call me lazy, but that's how I roll.

OK, you're lazy; but I like your method! Think I will start loading mine that way also.

[Liberty]

I go with 15. 16 just doesn't seem like much more.

[dicion]

I echo the above procedures with one minor change:

Use an empty mag for the +1. It's a lot easier to top off the first round in an empty mag than trying to shove that last round in a full mag.

I have the full mag on stand by, load the +1, drop the empty mag and add the full one.

Call me lazy, but that's how I roll.

You have empty mags in the house??

All mine are kept full, all the time!

[barres]

I have a .40 cal Glock, so I am slightly concerned about setback. My solution to the problem is that, when I am ready to reload my SD ammo, I make sure the pistol is cleared (2 or 3 times), and field strip the pistol. I put the +1 in the barrel and insert the barrel into the slide so that the round slides under the extractor. I reassemble the pistol and pull the slide back only far enough to verify that it is loaded and to pre-cock the striker. I then insert a fully loaded mag. No more worries about bullet setback.

For obvious reasons, this method will only work with certain models of pistols (for instance, it can't be done on 1911's, because the slide must be back for part of the reassembly process). I can only vouch for it working on Glocks, myself.

[Purplehood]

n vs n+1

I hate algebra!! There are three kinds of math people in the world - those that can add, and those that can't!

What was the question?

'taint so! There are 10 kinds of people in the world! Those who understand binary and those who don't!

00111001010001101110

Ah, yes, the new stuff, back when I was a pup, we only had ones to work with, no zeroes.


I used to use the "There's only 10 kinds . . ." as an intro to my class that included binary. It was fun to see people who hadn't gotten it yet, finally get it somehwere during the first day, and it was a shame to see the one or two who still didn't after the class ended.

Reminds me of a good Pollack joke...