NRA information old and outdated

[TheArmedFarmer]

The NRA has an attractive two-page brochure here:

http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/TXSL.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is a summary of the Texas firearm laws, and says it was last updated May, 2009. (So it's fairly up to date).

The trouble is, much of the information is extremely old and out of date.

It is unlawful for a handgun license holder to carry a
handgun on the premises of: a government court; a business
that derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale of
alcohol for on-premises consumption; a school or educational
institution, high school, collegiate, or professional sporting
event or interscholastic event that is taking place; a hospital or
nursing home; an amusement park; a place of religious worship;
a polling place on the day of an election; a meeting of
a governing body; a race track; a secured area of an airport; a
correctional facility; a correctional facility or within 1000 feet
of such, on the day of an execution; the property of another
after receiving notice that concealed handguns are forbidden
on that property. It is unlawful to possess a firearm in a penal
institution.

This bad information makes this whole brochure counter productive. Who can be contacted to get this updated?

[seamusTX]

It's hardly the end of the world if an out-of-state visitor doesn't carry in a hospital, church, or amusement park. Many Texas CHL instructors apparently can't get this part right.

What else is wrong?

There's a toll-free number on the page that you linked to.

- Jim

[TheArmedFarmer]

It's hardly the end of the world if an out-of-state visitor doesn't carry in a hospital, church, or amusement park. Many Texas CHL instructors apparently can't get this part right.

That's exactly my concern here. The Tyler CHL instructors, for example, get this wrong. This information is certainly used by more than "out-of-state visitors". Surely many Texans rely on the NRA's information to help them understand the laws in their own state.

There's a toll-free number on the page that you linked to.

I'm not going to call a toll free number and talk to a phone-answerer who likely has nothing to do with the information. I was thinking someone here had an inside source that they would be interested in working with to get the information corrected. I guess not, so never mind. :shrug:

[seamusTX]

Sorry, I don't know anyone in the NRA except Charles Cotton.

Texas CHL instructors have to renew their training every two years. I don't know how this information is communicated in the training classes, but obviously some don't get the message.

(I'll bet plenty of cops don't know the details, either. Some really ridiculous statements by police officers have been quoted here, including that it is illegal to carry hollowpoints.)

- Jim

[TheArmedFarmer]

I can see a problem develop in dealing with a cop who has his information from the NRA.

Me) I'm telling you the law says this.

Cop) No, the NRA says something different. Who knows better, the NRA or you (some joe on the street)?

Sigh.

[shootthesheet]

It's hardly the end of the world if an out-of-state visitor doesn't carry in a hospital, church, or amusement park. Many Texas CHL instructors apparently can't get this part right.

That's exactly my concern here. The Tyler CHL instructors, for example, get this wrong. This information is certainly used by more than "out-of-state visitors". Surely many Texans rely on the NRA's information to help them understand the laws in their own state.

There's a toll-free number on the page that you linked to.

I'm not going to call a toll free number and talk to a phone-answerer who likely has nothing to do with the information. I was thinking someone here had an inside source that they would be interested in working with to get the information corrected. I guess not, so never mind. :shrug:

You can do it by E-mail and link the CHL handbook to the e-mail. Include the parts you are concerned with and let them know why you are concerned. Include your contact info. Send it once a week until someone gets back to you or it is corrected. If it matters that much to you then make some calls too and don't assume anything. I am sure they want correct information there as much as you do.

[seamusTX]

I can see a problem develop in dealing with a cop who has his information from the NRA.

Texas LEOs carry a copy of the Texas Penal Code and some other codes.

Of course, you might have trouble explaining PC 46.035(i) to Deputy Fife.

- Jim

[TheArmedFarmer]

Of course, you might have trouble explaining PC 46.035(i) to Deputy Fife.

I'll email the NRA.

[TheArmedFarmer]

Jim,

You know more about this than I do. If you were willing to take a few minutes, could you re-write the paragraph above using up to date information? If you can do that, I'll contact the NRA once a week until they get the PDF updated.

[seamusTX]

To whom it may concern at the NRA-ILA:

Thanks for posting the reference information about Texas concealed-carry laws at
http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/TXSL.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

I am writing to bring to your attention a change in the law that this document does not reflect:

In the original Texas CHL law that went into effect in 1995, places of worship, hospitals, nursing homes, government meetings, and certain amusement parks were off-limits to concealed-carry licensees.

In 2007, the law was amended so that these locations must post signs in accordance with Texas Penal Code Section 30.06.

The amendment is Texas Penal Code Section 46.035(i).

You can view these statutes on the offical Texas web site at http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I would like to suggest that you remove places of worship, hospitals, nursing homes, government meetings, and amusement parks to a separate paragraph and add that they must be posted with a PC 30.06 sign to be off-limits to concealed-carry licensees.

The amusement park issue is complicated and frequently misunderstood. The definition of an amusement park is so restricted that only a few locations have ever met it. Currently, only Six Flags and Sea World meet the definition.

============================================================================

Y'all can critique this until The Armed Farmer wants to send it to the NRA.

- Jim

[TheArmedFarmer]

Jim, you're the man. I appreciate you helping with this. I did a little editing if you don't mind:

To whom it may concern at the NRA-ILA:

Thank you for posting the helpful reference information about Texas concealed-carry laws at http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/TXSL.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am writing to bring to your attention some changes in the law that this document does not reflect:

In the original Texas CHL law that went into effect in 1995, places of worship, hospitals, nursing homes, government meetings, and certain amusement parks were off-limits to concealed-carry licensees.

In 2007, the law was amended so that these locations must post signs in accordance with Texas Penal Code Section 30.06. The effect of this is that these locations are no longer given a treatment different from any other private property. Unless they are posted with a PC 30.06 sign, they are not off limits to concealed-carry licensees.

The amendment is Texas Penal Code Section 46.035(i). You can view these statutes on the offical Texas web site at http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Therefore, I would like to suggest that you remove places of worship, hospitals, nursing homes, and government meetings altogether, and add that that any property not specified must be posted with a PC 30.06 sign in order to be off-limits to concealed-carry licensees.

Amusement parks, on the other hand, is an issue that is complicated and frequently misunderstood. The definition of an amusement park is so restricted that only a few locations have ever met it. Currently, only Six Flags and Sea World meet the definition.

[seamusTX]

The effect of this is that these locations are no longer given a treatment different from any other private property.

That isn't quite the case, as Steve Rothstein pointed out a while back.

If a place of worship, hospital, nursing home, government meeting, or amusement park that meets the definition posts a 30.06 sign, carrying there is still a violation of PC 46.035. On private property, it is also a violation of PC 30.06.

The distinction is pretty much academic, as both are class A misdemeanors.

It's difficult to find the golden mean with these things. Out-of-state visitors to Texas, who are the likely audience for the NRA-ILA site, probably aren't going to be attending a government meeting. They might go to a hospital, nursing home, or amusement park.

It's easy to make everything so complicated that you might as well post the entire penal code, which is the exact opposite of what this site is trying to do.

- Jim

[TheArmedFarmer]

If a place of worship, hospital, nursing home, government meeting, or amusement park that meets the definition posts a 30.06 sign, carrying there is still a violation of PC 46.035.

Wow, that never occurred to me, but you're right. That's very interesting.

Okay, I'll rewrite again.

[TheArmedFarmer]

(I reworded the paragraph beginning with "In 2007". It's a little murky, and I'm leaving out a lot of subtleties in the law, but I'm looking to convey the actual "need to know" information.

To whom it may concern at the NRA-ILA:

Thank you for posting the helpful reference information about Texas concealed-carry laws at http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/TXSL.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am writing to bring to your attention some changes in the law that this document does not reflect:

In the original Texas CHL law that went into effect in 1995, places of worship, hospitals, nursing homes, government meetings, and certain amusement parks were off-limits to concealed-carry licensees.

In 2007, the law was amended so that these locations must post signs in accordance with Texas Penal Code Section 30.06. The effect of this change in the law is that these locations are, for all intents and purposes, no longer given a treatment different from any other private property. Unless they are posted with a PC 30.06 sign, they are not off limits to concealed-carry licensees.

It is a Class A misdemeanor to carry beyond a legal PC 30.06 sign.

The amendment is Texas Penal Code Section 46.035(i). You can view these statutes on the offical Texas web site at http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Therefore, I would like to suggest that you remove places of worship, hospitals, nursing homes, and government meetings altogether, and add that that any property not specified must be posted with a PC 30.06 sign in order to be off-limits to concealed-carry licensees.

The issue is amusement parks is complicated and frequently misunderstood. The definition of an amusement park is so restricted that only a few locations have ever met it. Currently, only Six Flags and Sea World meet the definition.

[seamusTX]

That works.

There's one small grammatical problem:

Amusement parks, on the other hand, is an issue that is complicated...

I suggest, "The issue of amusement parks is complicated..."

- Jim