30.06 at a gun show:Valid?

[CWOOD]

I know that there is another thread running relating to 30.06 and gun shows and loaded weapons but this is a different discussion. I am not a lawyer so take it as such. This is how it appears to me.

First, let us all agree that as a private business, Saxet or another show is within its rights to post a 30.06 and have it enforced. HOWEVER...

They post the 30.06, which only affects CHL holders, and then the routinely IGNORE it. They may make you unload it and they may zip tie it, and then they let you go ahead and carry...open or concealed.

30.06 only applies to the CHL holders carrying a concealed handgun. The law makes no distinction between loaded or unloaded nor zip tied or not. So by ignoring their own posting they have given tacit, and even actual, permission to carry on the posted premisis. This seems to mean that the 30.06 is no longer valid since those in charge seem to be counteracting their own sign. There is nothing in 30.06 that relates to ammunition so 30.06 cannot prevent anyone from carrying ammunition loose in you pocket or even in a magazine, or even un-zip-tying the pistol and inserting the loaded magazine in the weapon. It might be prudent to conceal afterward, but there is no legal violation.

Now, it would be possible for them to use 30.05 as a no trespass warning against loaded magazines and this could apply to everyone, not just CHLers. But since they sell ammunition they wouldn't want to prevent you from carrying ammo, so they would have to word the 30.05 warning very carefully.

I believe that some imaginary character could take their handgun into the show with an empty mag in the pistol and a loaded mag in the pocket. Let them zip tie it, and then go on about your business zipped or not, loaded or not...discreetly and that this person would not have violated any law. This "loophole" has been apparent to me for some years and I have hesitated to explore it publicly. Maybe I should continue that but I would be interested in the opinion of a lawyer

[pdubyoo]

That is an interesting question you pose. They have not asked you to leave the premises. In fact, they have given you admission to the show...knowing full well that you have the weapon on you. IANAL, but by that action alone, it seems to me that it could be construed as "permission". Like you, I'm curious to know what a lawyer thinks about it.

[Mike1951]

I still hold the opinion that if the show is being held in a government owned building, the posting isn't valid anyway.

Consider that gun shows are a case of en masse overlooking of violations by law enforcement. Everyone walking around with a handgun is violating state law, unless you choose to stretch and classify gun shows as a 'sporting activity'.

The only people who aren't in violation are folks like me and a few others here who ignore the officers and enter with their loaded, concealed carry. I trust myself not to pull my carry inside of a show. I guess others don't have that much discipline.

This has been discussed many times. The reason for the posting is usually to satisfy the promoter's insurance provider. No insurance, no gun show.

And the officers are being paid to enforce the promoter's rules, not the law. That's the reason for the no ammunition rule.

[boomerang]

As far as I can see in 30.06 there's no difference between a loaded handgun and one that's unloaded and zip tied.

[Mike1951]

As far as I can see in 30.06 there's no difference between a loaded handgun and one that's unloaded and zip tied.

There isn't. However, I'm licensed to carry a concealed handgun, so as long as it's concealed, I'm legal.

Those who openly carry handguns into a show aren't legal, but it is overlooked.

Again, those officers are working for the promoter and enforcing his rules, not the law.

[TacShot]

Is this just an academic argument or are you really interested in fighting it. Right now gunshows are under the microscope and if they want to establish reasonable safety rules that's just fine with me. My gun club, like many, is a cold range. I don't get my shorts in a wad over it just because I have a CHL.

[Mike1951]

Is this just an academic argument or are you really interested in fighting it. Right now gunshows are under the microscope and if they want to establish reasonable safety rules that's just fine with me. My gun club, like many, is a cold range. I don't get my shorts in a wad over it just because I have a CHL.

There's nothing to fight. Without the signs, there is no insurance. Without the insurance, there is no gun show. No gun show, nothing to fight.

The show is no less safe because I have a loaded, concealed handgun inside the show. In the one instance where I needed the handgun out to buy something for it, I returned to my truck and unloaded, presented it to be tied, and returned to the show.

Of course, for those who feel they can't resist the temptation to pull it out inside the show, then the rule is a good thing and they should continue to submit.

[mr.72]

This is just one of the many reasons I don't go to gun shows (frequently, anyway).