Carrying at a KKK Rally..

Kalrog · Post by **Kalrog** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:03 am

It is a stretch, and they will have to be asking EVERYONE for ID as they enter in order to know that you are carrying. Something doesn't pass the smell test here.

Diode · Post by **Diode** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:09 am

Kalrog wrote:It is a stretch, and they will have to be asking EVERYONE for ID as they enter in order to know that you are carrying. Something doesn't pass the smell test here.

I agree, what they are doing is using the part of the law where an officer can disarm a CHL holder temporally like durring a traffic stop and using it for admission to an event where otherwise a CHL holder would be allowed by law to go. Like Chas said I can understand why they would want to do this but I think they are benmding the living poo out of the law to do it.

What bothers me about this is now I feel anytime a city or county wants to disarm me they can by using the LEO's right to disarm me.

kw5kw · Post by **kw5kw** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:21 am

I'm not normally a paranoid person about items such as this, but this use of the LEO's authority to temporarally disarm a person did arouse my defensive instincts.

This can't be allowed to happen, I think there should be a limit to what is allowed under this -- the authority of a law enforcement officer to disarm.

If a crime has been committed, then I agree.
If no crime is committed, but I'm simply out in the open, even if it is a rally, then I should be allowed to defend myself with what I'm legally entitled to carry.

Russ

WNallG30 · Post by **WNallG30** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:08 pm

I don't think I could even make myself go to a KKK rally. I don't particularly like being around scum. But that does appear a blatant misuse of the law.

DaveT · Post by **DaveT** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:54 pm

So if officers 'disarm' several CHL holders, what provisions will they have to properly secure weapons at the scene ? If no provisions are made, and a weapon just seems to disappear, are the police responsible ? What happens if they drop or damage a weapon in some other way ?

And... if an innocent bystander, who was also a CHL holder that the police disarmed, is hurt or killed in any subsequent occurance at the event, will the police be held accountable ?

Many things do not pass the smell test here.

Aric · Post by **Aric** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:59 pm

I don't think I could even make myself go to a KKK rally. I don't particularly like being around scum. But that does appear a blatant misuse of the law.

I had no intention of going until I read the paper and it says I can't go... This kind of makes me want to...

Here is a reply I got from the Texas Attorney Generals Office

Dear Aric:

Thank you for contacting the Office of the Attorney General.

This office has no jurisdiction over municipalities. The Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS) is the state law enforcement agency. DPS can address many questions regarding the possession of weapons in Texas. You can contact DPS as follows:

Texas Department of Public Safety
Concealed Handgun Licensing Unit
Post Office Box 4143
Austin, TX 78765-4143
(512) 424-7293 or (512) 424-7294
(800) 224-5744
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us

You may also wish to contact your county attorney about your concerns.

Again, thank you for writing.

Katherine S. Wood
Public Information and Assistance
Office of the Attorney General of Texas

I didn't expect much from them but at least they responded quickly and told me to call the DPS.

Aric · Post by **Aric** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:17 pm

4. If a CHL holder tries to enter the event, he/she will first be asked to go place the weapon in his/her car. If the CHL holder declines, then he/she will be temporarily disarmed and can pick up the weapon upon leaving. Only if a CHL holder refuses to cooperate with a peace officer in allowing temporary disarming will there be the potential for an arrest.

Another question how would I go about being disarmed. I am sure they would want me to walk back to my car. I would plan on saying "NO, I have a legal right to attend this rally do you plan on disarming me." but then is this a time to pick a fight. I mean its a Klan rally so it would not look good. I can see it on the news already "Man gets arrested at the Rally carrying a gun" If it was a rally over taxes at the library I would be all over it. And TSRA/NRA won't touch it because it would make them look like racists. Also I can't afford Bail :)

And Charles "fails to comply with the lawful command of a peace officer" is this a Misdemeanor or Felony?

Also here is the address to the article in the paper. You might have to register but its free and they don't spam you

http://amarillo.com/stories/080206/new_5249741.shtml

robert_de_niro · Post by **robert_de_niro** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:50 pm

I am considering attending to counter-rally, but I don't think they can prohibit CHLs from carrying. My instructor would say that a handgun isn't a weapon... it's a handgun.

Post by **Charles L. Cotton** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:12 pm

Diode wrote:I sent an e-mail a few minutes ago and I got a response. You'll love how they are justifing there disarming CHL holders....... #2 is a stretch!

Sir:
The police chief's secretary forwarded your email to me for response. Yours is the second query on this topic. There seems to be a misperception circulating, probably attributable to the wording in the newspaper article. To my knowledge, no arrests of CHL holders is planned (of course, if he/she fails to comply with the lawful command of a peace officer then an arrest is highly possible). I will try to clarify the situation, as I understand it:

1. The rally will be a mass gathering within a fenced, controlled access area. It is a security sensitive event.
2. State law allows a peace officer to temporarily disarm a CHL holder during an encounter. The entire event will be marked by encounter with police officers.
3. The Potter County Attorney's Office has advised that they believe, under the totality of the circumstances, an officer will be justified in temporarily disarming a CHL holder at the rally.
4. If a CHL holder tries to enter the event, he/she will first be asked to go place the weapon in his/her car. If the CHL holder declines, then he/she will be temporarily disarmed and can pick up the weapon upon leaving. Only if a CHL holder refuses to cooperate with a peace officer in allowing temporary disarming will there be the potential for an arrest.

I trust that this information is helpful to you.

Marcus W. Norris
City Attorney
509 SE 7th Ave., Ste. 303
Amarillo TX 79101
Tel. 806.378.4208
Fax 806.378.3018

Ths authority to disarm is not so broad as to allow retention of the firearm for an extended period of time. If they truly attempt to carry out this plan, then I suspect they will try to argue that the entire rally area is the "scene" as contemplated in Â§411.207. Of course, that's garbage. Here is the statute:

Â§ 411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM. A peace
officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's
official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer
reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the
license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer
shall return the handgun to the license holder before discharging
the license holder from the scene if the officer determines that the
license holder is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or
another individual and if the license holder has not violated any
provision of this subchapter or committed any other violation that
results in the arrest of the license holder.

KBCraig · Post by **KBCraig** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:19 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Ths authority to disarm is not so broad as to allow retention of the firearm for an extended period of time.

Heck, it's not even so broad as to allow an officer to have a blanket policy of disarming CHLs during traffic stops. The language that allows disarming specifically requires that "the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual"

Â§ 411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM. A peace
officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's
official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer
reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the
license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer
shall return the handgun to the license holder before discharging
the license holder from the scene if the officer determines that the
license holder is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or
another individual and if the license holder has not violated any
provision of this subchapter or committed any other violation that
results in the arrest of the license holder.

Kevin

WNallG30 · Post by **WNallG30** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:39 pm

Aric, sorry if it sounded like I thought you were going for fun. I didn't think you were a KKK member! I realize your intentions in going. And I agree with your thoughts about the issue. I just would not want to pick a KKK rally as my test bed though. Racism and guns, even if legally carried, don't seem to mix.

age_ranger · Post by **age_ranger** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 6:53 am

It appears as if they're trying to prevent an incident by disarming CHL holders. Any time I've seen these things on the news the KKK is surrounded by Law Enforcement. Even being permitted to enter the area carrying concealed, would anyone really think of using their handgun? Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% for standing up to misinterpretation and abuse of the carry laws concerning our right to carry. However, this screams to me as one of those places to stay away from when I am carrying. Why put myself in a potentially hostile environment just to prove I can can carry there? Especially when there will be plenty of LE officers around packing plenty of firepower to take me out in the event I should get into a shoot? No thanks.

In 1995 some friends and I attended a rally to show our disapproval. I was stationed at Whiteman AFB at the time and although we were not permitted to engage in any way with the rally, we were permitted to go stand and observe. We did so after work in our BDU's. You should've seen the look on their faces when we pulled up and got together in our own silent protest. They're a waste of space and still are today........I actually am suprised they still exist these days.

Diode · Post by **Diode** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:22 am

age_ranger wrote:It appears as if they're trying to prevent an incident by disarming CHL holders.

I think we all understand and agree on why they are doing this. What worries me is how they are doing it. Next time we have a hurricane down here and they want to disarm us they can cite the KKK rally and say hey we did it then and no one cared! Like someone said we should pick our battles and this one won't look good if we make a stink over it. We'll be grouped in with the KKK and I don't see that working out good.

Venus Pax · Post by **Venus Pax** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:24 am

Yeah, this really kind of puts us between a rock and a hard place.
Then again, if they cite the KKK rally, we can always say, "Well, we didn't know anything about that. And, what made you disarm those people? Were they becoming violent?"

Diode · Post by **Diode** » Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:44 am

Venus Pax wrote:Yeah, this really kind of puts us between a rock and a hard place.
Then again, if they cite the KKK rally, we can always say, "Well, we didn't know anything about that. And, what made you disarm those people? Were they becoming violent?"

Right or Wrong I forwarded all the info I have to the NRA, let them decide if it's a issue.