Question about Conceal Carry Law

[sbearden]

When I took my permit class we discussed how an employer can place into the company handbook / policy that CCW is not allowed and that this restriction is valid. I'm having trouble finding this in the PDF file available online for texas handgun laws / concealed carry laws etc. I was hoping somebody may be able to point me in the right direction???

Now, since i'm already posting, i'll the question that has caused me to look this up. I'm a member of a national organization that in the handbook of the Org. says that carrying of any weapon is not allowed. It does not give the 30.06 or any other information as required by state law, but it is in the handbook. I'm trying to determine if this "restriction" they have in place is valid or not. If it is, myself and some others are going to begin working to get this restriction taken off for concealed carry permit holders.

If a organization as I mentioned writes that no member shall carry weapons in their handbook, is this a valid form of denying me / us the right to CCW at events?

[joe817]

Hi sbearden, welcome to the forum! There's a wealth of information here at your fingertips on CHL related issues, and a wonderful group of knowledgeable people to get to know.

An employer DOES have the right to restrict conceal carry at your place of work, as per GC 411.203:

"Sec. 411.203. RIGHTS OF EMPLOYERS. This subchapter does not prevent or otherwise limit the right of a public or private employer to prohibit persons who are licensed under this subchapter from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of the business."

If a organization as I mentioned writes that no member shall carry weapons in their handbook, is this a valid form of denying me / us the right to CCW at events?

Your question confuses me? What kind of CCW event does your employer host?

[sbearden]

Hi sbearden, welcome to the forum! There's a wealth of information here at your fingertips on CHL related issues, and a wonderful group of knowledgeable people to get to know.

An employer DOES have the right to restrict conceal carry at your place of work, as per GC 411.203:

"Sec. 411.203. RIGHTS OF EMPLOYERS. This subchapter does not prevent or otherwise limit the right of a public or private employer to prohibit persons who are licensed under this subchapter from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of the business."

If a organization as I mentioned writes that no member shall carry weapons in their handbook, is this a valid form of denying me / us the right to CCW at events?

Your question confuses me? What kind of CCW event does your employer host?

I perhaps should not have included the part about the employer, but felt it was somewhat related.

I am looking into an issue where a volunteer organization I am a member of has a handbook / "bylaws" that state members are not allowed to carry any weapons to events. I believe that they are attempting to prevent this under the theory of "if its in the "handbook" then it's not allowed" similar to the way an employer would tell you that you're not allowed to carry.

in summary (too late right?)
Organization has handbook that states no member can carry. I'm looking to see if that is valid in texas to prevent it's members from Concealed Carrying to events. This being said, events are often held in public (hotel conference type rooms, local parks, etc) and the locations are themselves do not restrict carrying based on 30.06.

[joe817]

Well for what it's worth, and I'm no lawyer to be sure, if you volunteer your services to an organization, you become an "employee" when you're working for them, and the rules and regs of the handbook apply. But that's only my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt.

[sbearden]

Well for what it's worth, and I'm no lawyer to be sure, if you volunteer your services to an organization, you become an "employee" when you're working for them, and the rules and regs of the handbook apply. But that's only my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt.

What about when you're not "working" for them, but partaking in social type activities? I do see your point, just adding another line of thought to it.

[joe817]

Again, IMO, and I'm no lawyer, if you are partaking in the social activities and not there in the capacity of a volunteer "employee" then the handbook rules do not apply, right? If it were me, I'd carry at the social event, UNLESS it's a social event for the volunteers.

[Charles L. Cotton]

The policies of a volunteer organization do not trump state law. The organization can enforce the no-gun policy only by removing you from the organization. If the policy manual has language that complies with TPC §30.06, then you could be prosecuted for criminal trespass if you go into that organization's property with a handgun. However, if the events are held on property the organization does not own or lease, then their TPC §30.06 notice is ineffective and you cannot be prosecuted.

Chas.

[Dudley]

Well for what it's worth, and I'm no lawyer to be sure, if you volunteer your services to an organization, you become an "employee" when you're working for them, and the rules and regs of the handbook apply. But that's only my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt.

If you violate their policy they can "fire" you and stop getting your volunteer labor for free.

[dac1842]

I did not read all the other replies. As the discipline manager for a forturne 100 company I will tell you our position. The rules say no deadly weapons, only our police are allowed to have weapons (yes they are real police our industry is unique there). if you are caught with a weapon you are fired period.
This is where the rights of the individual and the rights of property owners collide. Personally, if were up to me, no rules for people who CHL'd. But when you are hired you accept the company rules.
The question is does the handbook constitute effective notice. I would think it would, though I am not an attorney. Charles or one of the others that are, might have an opinion or two on this.

My advice is this, do not carry unless you don't mind getting a new job.

[OldSchool]

Doesn't this fall under the concept of "who controls the property?" If it's my house (owned or leased), I can insist that no one carries, and have the right to remove anyone who disagrees. A firm would (should?) likely have the same right.

My situation is a bit different than the norm: I can't carry at any of my jobs. At one of my jobs, I can't carry any "hazardous items" (including ammo) past the gate, as my mail would thereafter be sent to Leavenworth. At the two part-time jobs, I would have to leave such stuff in the car.

Edit: The penalty at the latter two jobs is termination and likely armed trespass charges.

[Skiprr]

The question is does the handbook constitute effective notice. I would think it would, though I am not an attorney. Charles or one of the others that are, might have an opinion or two on this.

First up: IANAL. But as Charles alluded, no written notification serves as legal notice under PC §30.06 unless the language is identical to that shown in PC §30.06(3)(A). There is no such language restriction for oral notification.

PC §30.06 is also quite specific about property: trespass is determined by the property, not by the organization or the employer (meaning an organization that, for example, holds a one-day meeting at a hotel does not control the hotel's property).

A company I used to work for had a weapons section in its employee handbook (not PC §30.06 compliant, BTW) that went so far as to state that the employee could have no weapons of any kind on any company property, whether owned by the company or not; in any company vehicle; at any company-sponsored event; on the property of any customer or supplier, whether owned by the customer or supplier or not; or in transit in any way from or to any company, customer, or supplier location.

As we've discussed often before, there are two different things at play here. One is the letter of the law regarding trespass by the holder of a CHL, and the other are terms under which one has accepted employment.

For example, if the company handbook does not contain PC §30.06 compliant language, and you have received no oral notification otherwise, you are not breaking Texas trespass law by carrying your concealed handgun on the premises. However, Texas, like most, is an at-will work state, and the employer does not need to exercise a charge of trespass in order to immediately terminate your employment.

So the issue of legality and possible dismissal are two completely different things.