Louisiana resteraunt carry

[srothstein]

I am not a lawyer or a trained in Louisiana law. I want to make sure everyone understands that Louisiana law is different from the rest of the country since it was based on the Napoleonic Code instead of English Common-law. This means it is not going to be read the way our law is. At least, that part was the way I was taught and peace officers in Texas used to have to know that tidbit for some reason.

So, I may be reading the law wrong, but here is what i see as a problem in it. Section 14:95 is their equivalent of our Penal Code Chapter 46. It basically makes carrying of concealed weapons illegal. In 14:95 there is a long list of exceptions and having a license is not in that list. In 14:95.3, there is a ban on carrying anywhere alcohol is sold, period. It has one single exception line that covers peace officers and employees of stores selling alcohol. It has a definition of what is meant by alcoholic beverage outlet. In 14:95.4 there is a different definition of alcoholic beverage outlet and an implied consent law.

Then, in 40:1379 the law defines the duties of police officers. This is similar to our Government Code Chapter 411. Amazingly enough, just as our CHL laws are in the chapter defining the powers and duties of the DPS, their chapter 40:1379 has a section on issuing a concealed weapons permit. Section 40:1379.3(B) grants a person the authority to carry the concealed weapon. The interesting flaw is that it does not specify that this is an exception to the other law or what limits it still leaves in place. 40:1379(N) then has a list of places where a CHL may not carry their weapon, and it includes only 51% (well, their equivalent) places as banned for sale of alcoholic beverages.

So, as I read their laws (which is quite possibly wrong, as I said earlier), there is a conflict in their laws. One section says you can and one section says you cannot. Apparently, the State Police have taken the position that you cannot carry anywhere alcoholic beverages are sold. given the conflict and the way the laws are written, I would think a court would look at the age of the various laws and the legislature's intent if it can be ascertained from the laws. Since the CHL section is newer and generally contradicts the general weapons section, I would think the intent is to allow you to carry in restaurants and convenience stores but not in bars.

But, with the state police taking their position, you stand a decent chance of being arrested if you are discovered. And there is nothing to contradict the implied consent you gave by just entering the store (though I am not sure if that would stand up in federal appeals court). I think you would end up winning in the long run but spending time and money defending yourself.

It is a case of beating the rap but not the ride and being the test case to clarify the Louisiana law. In this thread we have posted the actual laws for you to read. I do not have access to any case law from Louisiana, but have tried to give my analysis anyway (worth what you are paying for it). As an informed and responsible adult, now you each get to make your own decision on what to do if YOU are in Louisiana. Some of us will decide one way, some the other. I will not say either side is wrong.

[ScottDLS]

Steve -

This is a great review of the Louisiana statutes. As you point out there seems to be a conflict, however the section granting authority to carry a concealed handgun is the later statute. It specifies the locations authorized for carry. The earlier statute prohibits carrying a handgun at all. So if you (licensed) could be arrested for carrying in a restaurant, presumably you could be arrested for carrying anywhere.

-Scott

[FL450]

It looks like at a minimum have these code referances handy for it seems that law enforcement may have a differant view depending if the agency or officer is aware of all the relevent codes.
Thanks for all the great input.

[casingpoint]

RS 14:95.4
§95.4. Consent to search; alcoholic beverage outlet

A. Any person entering an alcoholic beverage outlet as defined herein, by the fact of such entering, shall be deemed to have consented to a reasonable search of his person for any firearm by a law enforcement officer or other person vested with police power, without the necessity of a warrant.

Does anyone think this provision is illegal under the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution?

[WildBill]

RS 14:95.4
§95.4. Consent to search; alcoholic beverage outlet

A. Any person entering an alcoholic beverage outlet as defined herein, by the fact of such entering, shall be deemed to have consented to a reasonable search of his person for any firearm by a law enforcement officer or other person vested with police power, without the necessity of a warrant.

Does anyone think this provision is illegal under the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution?

I believe that it is not constitutional.

[Oldgringo]

RS 14:95.4
§95.4. Consent to search; alcoholic beverage outlet

A. Any person entering an alcoholic beverage outlet as defined herein, by the fact of such entering, shall be deemed to have consented to a reasonable search of his person for any firearm by a law enforcement officer or other person vested with police power, without the necessity of a warrant.

Does anyone think this provision is illegal under the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution?

I believe that it is not constitutional.

Along with the many other things I've forgotten over time is the fact that Louisiana law is based on the Napoloeonic Code unlike the rest of the U.S.'s laws. So, what does this mean...I dunno?

[WildBill]

Along with the many other things I've forgotten over time is the fact that Louisiana law is based on the Napoloeonic Code unlike the rest of the U.S.'s laws. So, what does this mean...I dunno?

Since you live in Texas, not much. For example, the inheritance and community property laws that apply in most states are much different in Louisiana.

[Mike1951]

RS 14:95.4
§95.4. Consent to search; alcoholic beverage outlet

A. Any person entering an alcoholic beverage outlet as defined herein, by the fact of such entering, shall be deemed to have consented to a reasonable search of his person for any firearm by a law enforcement officer or other person vested with police power, without the necessity of a warrant.

Does anyone think this provision is illegal under the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution?

I will point out again that "alcoholic beverage outlet" does not include restaurants.

[chabouk]

Along with the many other things I've forgotten over time is the fact that Louisiana law is based on the Napoloeonic Code unlike the rest of the U.S.'s laws. So, what does this mean...I dunno?

Since you live in Texas, not much. For example, the inheritance and community property laws that apply in most states are much different in Louisiana.

I believe you can't not leave part of your estate to one of your children in Louisiana. Leave one out, they can sue and get an equal share.

Edit: I see that has been updated.

http://www.bernardduhon.com/wills.htm#F ... nheritance" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[casingpoint]

So, what does this mean...I dunno?

Under the Napoleonic Code, each case that comes to trail is tried on the Revised Statutes. Prior case history as used in Common Law Doctrine of the other states can be submitted to the courts, but do not form the law of decision. Something like that. I really don't see a big difference in the end results of either system. The lawyers usually get most of the money, and the beat goes on.

[C-dub]

Y'all are not giving me any reasons to go to LA. I've only been there twice in my life. Once driving to FL and once coming back. I don't think we even stopped for gas.

[wgoforth]

Best thing to come out of Louisiana is I-10!

(wearing my mardi-gras mask)

[gregthehand]

I lived in Louisiana for a while and I got a hold of their department for concealed handgun licensing and asked this same question via email. They told me that it was the same as Texas in that they had to be a full fledged bar. I also shot with a lot of LA CCP holders and instructors and they said that's how it was being taught in the class.

[FL450]

Thanks for all the great input, want to be legal but also protected as most of the restaurants I eat at semi close to the airport when I have a flight to Louisiana are not in the best neighborhoods.

[casingpoint]

Best thing to come out of Louisiana is I-10!

Excuse me, but that would be the Hurricane Katrina refugees from New Orleans. Gettin' rid of them was the best thing we ever did.