Between 18 and 21 Concealed Vehicle Carry

[ifanyonecan]

Hello all,

This forum has kept me up all night the past two evenings. It's a goldmine of information and extremely entertaining. Thanks.

I'm 18, and the subject of this post pretty much poses my question. I tried searching for this, so I'm sorry if this has been answered, but can I keep a handgun concealed when I'm travelling? I haven't seen anything in the law that leads me to suggest I cannot, but at McCoy's gun shop here in Austin, an employee told me that since I'm under 21, if I'm ever caught with a handgun off of my property without someone that IS 21 with me, I'll be charged and never be able to purchase a gun again.

I am interested in getting my CHL ASAP after I turn 21. I've always been a firm believer in self-defense, and after Castle Doctrine was passed, I made a habit of keeping a 12-gauge next to my bed. I was only 13, and only a couple years later my sister was born, so I started keeping the shells lined up out of her reach. Anytime I woke up in the middle of the night, I would grab them, load the gun, chamber a shell, then remove them and put everything back. My friends joke that I'm overeagerly plotting legal murder should anyone break in, but I just call it being ready. My father was okay with it, but made sure to tell me not to leave the intruder as a witness. I don't have a gun with me here, but I'm considering getting a cheap shotgun to keep up here or bring up one of the family long guns. I carry around my 4" folding knife clipped to my jeans everywhere I go, and I instinctively place my thumb in that pocket when the pushy homeless get too close.

Sorry for the novel. I just thought I'd give a bit of introduction so I don't seem like the random stranger that registered to ask one question. I'd like to stick around.

[Charles L. Cotton]

The Motorist Protection Act (HB1815) became effective 9/1/07. As of that date, it was no longer illegal to have a handgun in your car without a CHL. There is no mention of age.

It is illegal to have a handgun in your car if:

• It is in plain view;
  You are committing a crime other than Class C traffic violations;
  You are prohibited from possessing firearms under state or federal law; or
  You are a member of a criminal street gang as defined in the Texas Penal Code (Chp. 71.

Please note that it isn't necessary to be traveling in order to have a handgun in the car, although the "traveling defense" is still available for modes of travel other than a motor vehicle.

I have no idea where the gun shop employee got that opinion.

Chas.

[ifanyonecan]

The Motorist Protection Act (HB1815) became effective 9/1/07. As of that date, it was no longer illegal to have a handgun in your car without a CHL. There is no mention of age.

It is illegal to have a handgun in your car if:

• It is in plain view;
  You are committing a crime other than Class C traffic violations;
  You are prohibited from possessing firearms under state or federal law; or
  You are a member of a criminal street gang as defined in the Texas Penal Code (Chp. 71.

Please note that it isn't necessary to be traveling in order to have a handgun in the car, although the "traveling defense" is still available for modes of travel other than a motor vehicle.

I have no idea where the gun shop employee got that opinion.

Chas.

Thank you for your quick reply.

Those are the laws as I understood them. So since there is no mention of age, can 16-year-olds CC while driving?

And I think he may have meant the vehicle included in property, perhaps?

[Charles L. Cotton]

I really don't want to get into the issue of anyone under age 17 because of the Texas version of the so-called "safe storage law." It applies to "children" statutorily defined as anyone under the age of 17, but the law applies to the person making a "readily dischargeable firearm" available to a "child."

I'm not sure what you are asking about the vehicle and property. Sorry.

Chas.

[ifanyonecan]

I really don't want to get into the issue of anyone under age 17 because of the Texas version of the so-called "safe storage law." It applies to "children" statutorily defined as anyone under the age of 17, but the law applies to the person making a "readily dischargeable firearm" available to a "child."

I'm not sure what you are asking about the vehicle and property. Sorry.

Chas.

That makes sense. I hadn't considered that.

And I was just saying that the McCoy's employee may have been intending to include vehicles in property when he said "If you're caught with a handgun off your property...."

[Charles L. Cotton]

And I was just saying that the McCoy's employee may have been intending to include vehicles in property when he said "If you're caught with a handgun off your property...."

Now I see what you mean. Perhaps he was including motor vehicles as your "property," but the rest of the statement is also incorrect. If you or anyone without a CHL is carrying a handgun outside your property, place of employment, motor vehicle (yours or one under your control), or any other place where it is legal (ex. hunting, shooting range, etc.) then they can be charged with a misdemeanor unless it's in one of the locations that is a felony (schools, bars, etc.). A misdemeanor is not a lifetime prohibition on possessing firearms, unless it is a conviction for family violence. In fact, a misdemeanor conviction has no effect on purchasing, owning or possessing firearms, but it does disqualify you from getting a CHL for five years. (Class C misdemeanors are not disqualifying unless they are under TPC Chp. 42 - Disorderly Conduct.) Also, having someone 21 with you is not a defense.

I should have mentioned this earlier. A person can get a CHL at age 18, if they are in the military. The Texas Legislature would not pass a law allowing someone 18 to get a CHL if either Texas or federal law prohibited that person from possessing a handgun.

Chas.

[BigJohn]

In my CHL class they explained that a person who has a concealed hangun in their car without a CHL must meet ALL of the requirements to obtain a CHL. If this is the case then you must be 21 years of age.

[Charles L. Cotton]

In my CHL class they explained that a person who has a concealed hangun in their car without a CHL must meet ALL of the requirements to obtain a CHL. If this is the case then you must be 21 years of age.

Thankfully, that's incorrect. None of the CHL requirements apply, other than the requirement that you cannot be prohibited from possessing firearms by state or federal law.

Chas.

[chabouk]

And I was just saying that the McCoy's employee may have been intending to include vehicles in property when he said "If you're caught with a handgun off your property...."

You've now learned two great lessons about gun laws in Texas:
1. This is the place to ask questions, and get accurate answers complete with cites to the law.
2. Gun shops aren't.

Gun shop employees are notoriously wrong when it comes to gun laws. Worse, they enjoy a sort of puffery because they're perceived as "experts" by the general public, and they often compound the problem by making up answers, then displaying a certitude that is unsupported by the facts. The less they know, the more emphatic they are that they know it all.

Sadly, coming in second place behind gun shop employees, are the average police officers on patrol. Some are outstanding on the law (we have some great examples right here on the forum). The majority know the basics, but probably not the specifics, and are going to take a minute to find out before taking any action. Unfortunately, there are also a good number who, the more wrong they are, are going to double down on efforts to prove they're right by taking you to jail.

So, yes: anyone 17 or older can legally, unequivocally, carry a handgun in a car, provided they're not otherwise barred from possessing a firearm. You might run into a cop that insists otherwise, and if you do, you should politely insist on getting a supervisor to interpret the law.

[ifanyonecan]

Awesome! Thank you everyone for your replies. Does it become illegal if I park on the UT Austin campus? Also, if I had a CHL, could I take it to school? I remember hearing about CC on campus awhile back and people said there were protests at the capitol, but since I don't yet have a CHL, I didn't pay much attention.

[Bart]

46.03 applies whether or not you have a CHL. However the 30.05f exemption (30.06) only applies to CHL so any kind of sign, even a gun buster, is enough to make unlicensed carry in your car trespassing and so illegal.

They can also kick you out of school for breaking the rules, even if it's not illegal.

Awesome! Thank you everyone for your replies. Does it become illegal if I park on the UT Austin campus? Also, if I had a CHL, could I take it to school? I remember hearing about CC on campus awhile back and people said there were protests at the capitol, but since I don't yet have a CHL, I didn't pay much attention.