Targets, shooting, and training.

[MoJo]

A thread on this board ( http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31807" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) got me to thinking about what constitutes good shooting in a self defense situation. The B27 target that is mandated by DPS for CHL qualifications is not a good training target. First, the 5 zone is too large and too low, hits in the "X" ring are "gut shots" yes they will kill but they rarely stop an attacker. To get really good disabling hits one has to stop thinking of "center mass" as the X ring on the B27. The old DPS qualification target was a lot more realistic in the placement of the COM zone although it was wayyyyyyyyy too big. Hits high in the chest work best there is an area referred to as the "magic triangle or the golden triangle" defined by an imaginary triangle running between the nipples and the adam's apple. Hits to this area almost always result in rapid incapication.

The Mozambique Drill of two to the body one to the head is a great competition scenereo but a bad tactic. Why stop hitting a large relatively easy target to try to hit a small moving one? Many trainers have dropped this tactic they now say shoot till the threat falls. If you want to see just how hard it is to make a head shot, get some balloons, string and a couple of posts. Make a "clothes line" with the string and posts hang a balloon that is about the size of a human head from the clothes line with 3-6" piece of string (this works best in a light breeze) and back off 7-10 yards. Run in place until your heart rate is high and you are puffing, Have an associate shout "threat" draw and try to pop the balloon. I can't do it consistently in less than 3-5 shots and several times I have had to reload.

Remember, a gunfight is a dynamic situation. There is movement, adrenalin, fear, obstacles, noise and a host of other factors that can not be determined and replicated on a sterile range. The one thing you can control is how you train, use targets that don't teach you to make "gut shots" and learn to hit the magic triangle quickly, effectively and often. Then pray to God Almighty that you never have to use those skills.

[Blinking Dog]

As you could probably guess from my post in the other thread, I think you're very much on the right track here. You raised a point or two that should be underscored. One, ignore the scoring marks on the targets unless you want to win a trophy. If you want to train realistically then switch your thinking. A t shirt over a cardboard IDPA target switches things up nicely. Two, aiming for the cardiovascular triangle is solid advice. I disagree a bit on the head shot issue. You ought to have it in your quiver, but as you point out it is hard in reality. So train on it and know your limits. If you can only do it at 3 yards, so be it.

And as you say, God help us if we ever have to put all this training into use.

[gwashorn]

I want to order some of the photo targets of real people and situations to train with but they ain't cheap. But very good points here for sure.

gary

[bdickens]

Good shooting in a self-sefense situation is that which makes your attacker stop attacking you.

[A-R]

Good post. I agree with most of what you said. Caveat on the CHL target simply being that it is designed for qualifying that the person knows how to shoot their weapon accurately enough to be deemed fit to carry (please no diatribes on how this is a violation of 2A RKBA - I'm speaking only of what IS not what SHOULD BE). In reality, for the novice shooter I'd rather they aim for the center X "gut shot" because when they miss, they'll have more room for error. That X on the DPS target really is the CENTER of mass of a human torso.

More advanced training and practice and knowledge (as you have displayed, Mojo) lends itself to altering your practice sessions toward aiming for the "golden triangle" or reverse T or whatever the catchy nickname is these days.

I personally use a lot of these DPS style targets because I bought a bunch of them cheap and keep them in the truck with me. They're for public range use. When I train on some private property owned by my family, I often use cardboard cutout siloutettes and paint an orange circle in the upper chest for use while practicing draw and fire, move while firing etc.

And you're right, under high stress situations there is no question that accuracy become MUCH more difficult. I too have tried the balloon trick and it is difficult. Which is why head shots are not a first-strike tactic. The Mozambique drill is usefull, especially at public ranges that have limits on more "tactical" training, because it forces you to test your accuracy with less margin for error in a semi-rushed state of mind. I'm not nor have I ever been LEO or military and never been in a gunfight. I doubt I'd ever take a headshot unless there was some really extinuating circumstances (body armor? zombies?). But I use it as a practice technique to force myself to relax my muscles just a bit, refocus, re-examine the situation, then deliver a follow up shot with much greater precision. Extrapolate that training to a real world situation and it would be two shots to center mass, relax slightly, re-examine, and then if situation calls for it a more precisely aimed shot (but likely at center mass, not at head).

My point is that if you can consistently hit that third head shot doing a Mozambique drill, can only improve your accuracy for all other forms of shooting.

Anyway, again great post and great thread topic

PS: Anyone still have that video of the guy training with the cardboard targets on rope pulleys connected to his leg so the targets moved in opposite direction he moved? Guy looked Asian, and was using a Glock. This relates to the thread topic and I've been wanting to show that video to somone if anyone has it or can find it (I've searched YouTube with no luck).

[KC5AV]

The Mozambique Drill of two to the body one to the head is a great competition scenereo but a bad tactic. Why stop hitting a large relatively easy target to try to hit a small moving one?[/b

There is only one real world situation that I'm familiar with, and it answers this question.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Allen_Wilson" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I don't know how many shots Wilson fired, but I've heard that all of them were aimed COM. The fact that Arroyo was wearing a bullet proof vest made the shots ineffective. When all of your shots on a large relatively easy target fail to neutralize the threat, it's a good idea to change tactics.

[Zoomie]

A Marine Sargent once said "I shoot them in the chest alot, and if they don't fall down I shoot them in the face alot". As the north Hollywood shootout demonstrated, handguns are ineffective on heavy body armor, you might effect a target wearing level IIA armor, but if I'm wearing my plate carrier, center mass shots are going to be much less effective. The other situation that stands out is offenders drugged out of their minds.

The only other thing I'll add is shot timers are great tools for training, and having a set of standards (goals) is crucial.

[MoJo]

I'm not disparaging head shots if that's what it takes then do it. The "two to the chest one to the head" drill is just that a drill. One of the cops in the LA shootout only had the BG's ankle to shoot at. He shot the guy in the ankle and he went down. One former Sheriff's deputy once told me a head shot will stop a person but they may get back up and start again. Pelvic shots are highly effective in stopping hostilities especially when engaged with a rifle or shotgun.

"No reasonable man or woman will willingly go into a gunfight armed only with a handgun." Evan Marshall

[cougartex]

Very good posts all.

[03Lightningrocks]

While I agree it would be a good idea to practice some self defense scenarios while shooting, many of us don't have the luxury of such a place to shoot. Both the places i shoot at will have a cow if you rapid fire. They would have three cows if you were caught drawing and firing from a holster. I usually get told to slow it down two or three times each time I go. I can understand the concern they have. It is still a bummer, but I do understand. I shoot at the Bullet Trap and at Garland Public. Both are pretty strict about rapid firing and/or holster drawing.

Anyone have a suggestion for a place that allows rapid fire in the DFW area?

[Beiruty]

Dallas Pistol Club. Or search for Tom Bean.

[Ropin]

On Target in Benbrook has never hassled me about rapid fire.

[joe817]

On Target in Benbrook has never hassled me about rapid fire.

Same here when I go to Winchester Gallery in Ft.Worth.

[CompVest]

While I agree it would be a good idea to practice some self defense scenarios while shooting, many of us don't have the luxury of such a place to shoot. Both the places i shoot at will have a cow if you rapid fire. They would have three cows if you were caught drawing and firing from a holster. I usually get told to slow it down two or three times each time I go. I can understand the concern they have. It is still a bummer, but I do understand. I shoot at the Bullet Trap and at Garland Public. Both are pretty strict about rapid firing and/or holster drawing.

Anyone have a suggestion for a place that allows rapid fire in the DFW area?

Look at them, smile nicely, and tell them you have slowed it down!

[Keith B]

Look at them, smile nicely, and tell them you have slowed it down!

I like that!! Will have to use it if I am ever called down.

Luckily, I have never been told to slow down, but then again I am usually just hitting double-taps (allowed at BT) and then about 1-2 seconds between sets. And, while I don't draw from holster, I have been known to lay my gun in hand on the bench and raise it quickly to shoot, and then repeat. This at least allows me to practice acquiring a site picture and fire without the staff fearing the holster draw ND.

I will add one caveat though; I know all of the range officers over there pretty well, and usually when I am shooting they don't really pay attention to what I am doing. Since they don't hear anything sounding like rapid fire, I am pretty well ignored on the range.