Shooting through glass: Tactics and considerations.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

Scenario: You are in your vehicle, stuck in between 2 vehicles,
unable to zoom away, when a road rager on foot approaches you with a gun.
You make the decision to engage the threat with your handgun from
the driver's seat.

If you shoot through your vehicle's glass at the BG, should you shut your
eyes at the moment you shoot, to avoid glass shards?

Or should you keep your eyes open at the time you shoot? Maybe the
bullet going through the glass would only explode shards outside the vehicle.

If you had to shoot through the closed windows in your doors, I would not think
the bullet would deflect much from your point of aim.

But windshields, both front and rear, generally are more curved, and it seems that
your outbound bullet might go astray from your aiming point.

I believe that LEO's shooting INTO vehicle front windshields have the deflection problem .

The floor is open for discussion.

SIA

[srothstein]

I cannot in good conscience ever tell anyone to close their eyes when under a threat to their life. You cannot afford to lose sight of the threat. Possible shard of glass in your ayes are a very minute problem compared to the potential from any danger that justifes the use of deadly force.

I don't know if there will be a serious deflection of the bullet from the glass, either side or front/rear windows. I do know that if I am justified in shooting I will continue to shoot until the threat has stopped. I also know that after enough shots (possibly the second or third shot) in close proximity to each other, the glass will have a hole big enough to shoot through without worrying about deflection or glass shards.

[Skydivesnake]

WRT bullet deflection through auto glass, they did this one on box 'o truth;

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well - OK - buick 'o truth...

Not sure what to say about closing your eyes. Be prepared to loose your hearing though...

[Zoomie]

Also remember rifle rounds will show less deflection, .223 still shows significant deflection, but a .300 Win Mag will obviousally show less. One technique I've seen is to shoot out a hole/through the hole in the windshield. Also, here's another interesting article about fighting around a vehicle from Msgt. Howe.
http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com ... ver_07.pdf

[davidtx]

Also remember rifle rounds will show less deflection, .223 still shows significant deflection, but a .300 Win Mag will obviousally show less. One technique I've seen is to shoot out a hole/through the hole in the windshield. Also, here's another interesting article about fighting around a vehicle from Msgt. Howe.
http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com ... ver_07.pdf

Wow! Very counterintuitive.

[MoJo]

If you are inside your viehicle the windows are up and the doors locked I see no reason to shoot unless you are being shot at. In this case you're waaaaaaaay behind the curve. Auto glass is one of the hardest things to penetrate with handgun ammo especially the windshield and any other windows made from laminated glass. Anything a bullet hits causes deflection to a certain extent. Consider the actions of a billiards ball.

[joe817]

There was a show on "Personal Defense" on the Sportsman's Channel that was devoted to this very subject....shooting from within the confines of a vehicle with the windows rolled up.

They fired both pistol and rifle from outside the car through the front windshield at a distance of about 10-12' to a dummy in the driver's seat. Deflection from POA was 1-2" at most.

Firing from INSIDE the vehicle to a target 8' out, deflection was less because of distance to the windshield plus less of a curve on the glass from the muzzle. In addition, the shock waves from the muzzle tended to push the shards of glass away from the shooter.

I agree with SteveR. Don't close your eyes. You may loose track of the BG and that could be disastrous.

Note: that's only my opinion. it's untested and unproven by me.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/tv/pdtv" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You might find something of interest here:
http://www.gunsandammo.com/search/apach ... indshields" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ELB]

You might find this link of interest. It has comments re: glass shards from people who have either fired through auto glass or been shot at through auto glass. Short course, yes it can get in your eyes. Note that language restrictions are not as tight at WT:

http://warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t ... deflection" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have read other accounts, but cannot find them at this moment, concerning deflection. Seems to me the answer is the same as when not shooting through glass: shoot early, and shoot OFTEN. Don't count on one round to do the job, it may not hit exactly where you intended.

[The Annoyed Man]

Also remember rifle rounds will show less deflection, .223 still shows significant deflection, but a .300 Win Mag will obviousally show less. One technique I've seen is to shoot out a hole/through the hole in the windshield. Also, here's another interesting article about fighting around a vehicle from Msgt. Howe.
http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com ... ver_07.pdf

Wow! Very counterintuitive.

For very similar reasons, they say it is best not to crowd a wall for cover when maneuvering down a street in a firefight. Apparently, rifle bullets can hit a wall at a shallow enough angle that they just kind of skim along the wall surface and hit anyone who is pressed up against the wall — whereas keeping 18" or so away from the wall can keep you from getting hit that way. Since my natural inclination would be to want to press up against the wall, this is something that would require some mental involvement for me to execute.

Very fortunately for me, I've never had to test that theory.

[Zoomie]

For very similar reasons, they say it is best not to crowd a wall for cover when maneuvering down a street in a firefight. Apparently, rifle bullets can hit a wall at a shallow enough angle that they just kind of skim along the wall surface and hit anyone who is pressed up against the wall — whereas keeping 18" or so away from the wall can keep you from getting hit that way. Since my natural inclination would be to want to press up against the wall, this is something that would require some mental involvement for me to execute.

Very fortunately for me, I've never had to test that theory.

The main lesson here is that bullets do funny things and its good to know what those are so you don't catch an angry piece of lead. Being closer to cover will give you more cover, but if your worried about them flanking you that much, they will anyway, and its best to press. There are many good reasons not to crowd cover, including having to push your muzzle out past cover, limiting your maneuverability, and improving the chance you'll take a pass through round. .223 rounds have an especially bad reputation of following walls or paved streets. The one exception I've heard to crowing cover is crowding a wheel when shooting prone (fetal prone works best) from beneath a vehicle. this also has to do with the angles of bullets skipping off the pavement.

[ELB]

Skipping bullets (pistol or rifle) off the pavement under a car is a technique to reach someone on the far side of a car. Similarly, bullets can skip off the hood of a car being used for cover, so you don't want to crowd up against the fender...