Hornady Critical Defense amunition

[SecedeTX]

I am going to be carrying a compact 9mm, and was told that the best round for my application was the Hornady Critical Defense 115gr FTX round. The guy at the gun store was acting like this round was the best thing since sliced bread. I would love to hear your thoughts and opinions about this round or what the best round is.

My intention is not to start a brand loyalty argument (Chevy vs Ford vs Dodge) but to objectivly figure out which round is best.

[The Annoyed Man]

One of our resident experts posted a thread on this ammo a while back: HERE IT IS.

All the same, there are lots of other folks here who put their trust in other ammo types. HERE IS A LINK TO SOME COMPARATIVE PERFORMANCE DATA FOR THE 9MM.

[G.A. Heath]

I carry it in my BUG which is a Ruger LCR (the .38 special +P load) , and I like it. I will say that it is not a good all around performer as it does not penetrate well against dense targets such as wood, metal, and glass. In my opinion its a good self defense round, but it probably would not do well in a LE environment.

[gwashorn]

I carry it in my 9mm and 38 sp. I will carry it in my 45. I have seen tests for it at two other forum sights with the penetration gel tests and through clothing etc. I have seen tests on sheetrock walls etc on TV. For my personnal public carry defense round I have decided it is my carry ammo. At home and for ZOMBIE attacks from the depths of caves where the creatures come out to attack, I have other rounds I use.

Gary

[E150GT]

I have them in both my guns in .380 and 9mm. I only have them cause that's what the gun store had in stock besides FMJ. They do seem to get stuck extracting a live round in my TCP for some reason though. The cycle fine when its just empties coming out.

[A-R]

I don't claim to be an expert like the folks whose test results TAM linked to above. But I tested some Hornady CD in 9mm and .380 for expansion in milk jugs a while back. Compared to the other rounds I tested (and a few more I've tested since, but not posted), the CD round was a fair performer in 9mm, but the clear winner in .380. In both loads, it is a very accurate round - easily the most accurate round in my Walther PPS 9mm. And it's no slouch in 9mm, but there are just plenty of other loads that penetrated and expanded better. In .380, the CD cycles perfectly in my lil Ruger LCP, penetrated and expand acceptably (which is more than I can say for any other .380 self-defense round I've tested, including some Winchester Bonded PDX that I've tested since posting my original results that expanded extraordinarily well but did not penetrate acceptably).

My results: http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic. ... t=milk+jug" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[The Annoyed Man]

I don't claim to be an expert like the folks whose test results TAM linked to above. But I tested some Hornady CD in 9mm and .380 for expansion in milk jugs a while back.

I had forgotten about your test. Thanks for including the link.

[SecedeTX]

Thanks for all of the input. I picked up 3 boxes (two to shoot to make sure my gun likes it).

For what it is, and how I intend to use it, it looked like the right round for concealment.

[RPB]

I am going to be carrying a compact 9mm, and was told that the best round for my application was the Hornady Critical Defense 115gr FTX round. The guy at the gun store was acting like this round was the best thing since sliced bread. I would love to hear your thoughts and opinions about this round or what the best round is.
My intention is not to start a brand loyalty argument (Chevy vs Ford vs Dodge) but to objectivly figure out which round is best.

Thanks for all of the input. I picked up 3 boxes (two to shoot to make sure my gun likes it).
For what it is, and how I intend to use it, it looked like the right round for concealment.

That's what I carry in my:

Taurus PT-709
KelTec PF9
KelTec PF11
Glock 26

Reason: good bullet, good expansion, lower recoil than most.

That's my first choice ammo, (90250) Hornady 9mm Luger 115 gr Critical Defense®
especially in Winter, Fall, and Spring when a denim or thick jacket etc might clog a hollowpoint that doesn't have that noseplug.
When I can't find them I go to second choice ...
Second choice is 23614 Gold Dots (Not the 53614 115gr. GDHP nor LE 53612 115gr. GDHP (Formerly called +P+)
Ballistics of both below:

(90250) Hornady 9mm Luger 115 gr Critical Defense®
Velocity/Energy
Muzzle 1140/332
50 1030/271
100 954/232
http://www.hornady.com/store/9mm-Luger- ... l-Defense/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
--------------
23614 Gold Dot Personal Protection - 9mm Luger 115gr. GDHP

Velocity(in feet per second) // Energy(in foot pounds)
Muzzle 1210 // Muzzle 374
at 50 1071 // at 50 293
at 100 981 // at 100 246

I have no intention of firing at a person real far away for defense, low recoil for followup shots, regaining my aim quickly is more important to me, I knew an officer, Jeff Ginn, and he and a bad guy stood 8 feet from each other, facing each other on opposite sides of a boat, both emptied their revolvers at each other, no bullet hit either of them, hands shake when you need them to aim....but I included ballistics for 50 and 100 anyway. (Officer Ginn was killed while reloading, bad guy had another gun)

I also put Hogue Handall Juniors on all my thin 9mms upside down for a bit or recoil reduction/control, better grip..

BOTH of the above are effective rounds and BOTH have WAY LESS recoil than Federal's "low recoil" ammo.

[UpTheIrons]

I carry the +P version in my LCR, and I'm happy with it - it seems to do what it is supposed to do, as advertised. I've also got some .380 that's waiting for a gun to find a home in.

HOWEVER, I posted the following on another forum, where things aren't as genteel as they are here. You would have thought I said something horribly offensive about everyone's mothers by the responses that came in. I just wondered aloud how they came up with these results. Nowhere do they say what media were used for testing, or what the overall results were. Ed Head simply said that in Hornady Critical Defense, .380 = .38 Special = 9mm. I don't know how that can be, but here's the note I posted:


"I was catching up on Tom Gresham's Gun Talk radio show podcasts today and heard this during hour 2 of the 3/21 show:

Ed Head of Gunsite said that their testing shows that in PREMIUM SD AMMO performance is almost identical between .380, .38 Special and 9mm, especially in Hornady Critical Defense.

You can listen yourself here, if you don't already subscribe to the podcast:
http://guntalk.libsyn.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Guntalk 2010-03-21 Part B, about 16:30 into the hour.

Anyone else have the same results? Tom Gresham said he saw penetration with only 1" difference between .380 and .38 Special."

[A-R]

I've personally tested all three (.380, .38, 9mm) and they are not so close that you can't tell the best perfomer (9mm) from the worst (.380) of the three when compared against each other. The key differences are in the amount of expansion, as penetration was similar. And they are closer than you'd think - but to me that makes their 9mm round a bit subpar, more so than necessarily making their .38 or .380 round "better". There are a number of 9mm loads that perform better. Also most .38 +P loads perform better than regular CD .38.

Not sure if the numbers below will show up correctly (cut-n-pasted from a spreadsheet), but here are the differences

Muzzle Penetration Recovered bullet
Caliber Brand Model Grain wgt FPS Ft. Lbs. # of jugs ~ inches Diameter % increase
9mm Hornady Critical Defense 90250 115 1140 332 stopped in 3rd 14 - 18 14mm 55%
.38 Spl Hornady Critical Defense 90310 110 1175/1010 249 stopped in 3rd, dented back wall 18 13mm 44%
.380 Hornady Critical Defense 90080 90 1000 200 stopped in 3rd 14 - 18 12.5mm 38%

[UpTheIrons]

I've personally tested all three (.380, .38, 9mm) and they are not so close that you can't tell the best perfomer (9mm) from the worst (.380) of the three when compared against each other. The key differences are in the amount of expansion, as penetration was similar. And they are closer than you'd think - but to me that makes their 9mm round a bit subpar, more so than necessarily making their .38 or .380 round "better". There are a number of 9mm loads that perform better. Also most .38 +P loads perform better than regular CD .38.

That's what I was afraid of - that it 'dumbed down' one round in order to make them all appear similar. Intentionally or not. Still, I'm happy with the .38 +P in HCD.



ETA: font color changed for clarity.

[SecedeTX]

I watched a clip on Youtube about what they were trying to accomplish with the round regardless of . They wanted penetration through denim or leather with no clogging, and wanted the penetration in the the "squishy" target to be less than 12 inches, thus inflicting the most tissue damage while keeping the round in the first "squishy" target and not going into a second unintentional squishy target on the other side.

Is it good for going through solid stuff? Nope.

Besides, the chick in the commercial I saw for it was kinda hot, and that counts for something right?

[G.A. Heath]

I watched a clip on Youtube about what they were trying to accomplish with the round regardless of . They wanted penetration through denim or leather with no clogging, and wanted the penetration in the the "squishy" target to be less than 12 inches, thus inflicting the most tissue damage while keeping the round in the first "squishy" target and not going into a second unintentional squishy target on the other side.

Is it good for going through solid stuff? Nope.

Besides, the chick in the commercial I saw for it was kinda hot, and that counts for something right?

There's a commercial for it?

[UpTheIrons]

There's a commercial for it?

I guess it is this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhXSTqV0CT4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;