How to improve?
Moderator: carlson1
How to improve?
So, first off, I still consider myself a new shooter. I've had my CHL since last year, but due to lots of work, travel, planning a wedding, moving, etc.. I've not practiced nearly as much as I would like. I plan to fix that. However, I am also wondering in a sense "what my problem is" when it comes to shooting. Hence, I'm tossing this up on line for commentary and advice. I shot this earlier today, from 3 yards with a 9mm XDM. I fired 100 rounds with aim points at the center for most of them, but I did aim at the various numbers up and down the center line, the head, and some to the upper right of the target. Toward the end, I was just looking at putting holes in places where I could tell if I hit or not. I hadn't planned on putting this online until I was driving home.
A few thoughts/comments of my own..
1. First shots of the day were pretty good. Hit the middle and then close to it. As the mag went on (19 round mags) and into the second mag.I seemed to get worse. When I spent a couple minutes reloading, I was again pretty good for the first few, then worse as I went. Could this be due to muscle fatigue?
2. It looks to me like I need to work on my trigger control. Other than dry-fire or randomly putting snapcaps in the mag, anybody have any good techniques for improving trigger control?
Thanks!
A few thoughts/comments of my own..
1. First shots of the day were pretty good. Hit the middle and then close to it. As the mag went on (19 round mags) and into the second mag.I seemed to get worse. When I spent a couple minutes reloading, I was again pretty good for the first few, then worse as I went. Could this be due to muscle fatigue?
2. It looks to me like I need to work on my trigger control. Other than dry-fire or randomly putting snapcaps in the mag, anybody have any good techniques for improving trigger control?
Thanks!
Re: How to improve?
What are your goals in terms of accuracy, speed, and distance?
Fast, short-distance practical shooting has a different approach from long-distance bullseye shooting.
Have you read the Army or Marine pistol marksmanship manuals? They are posted all over the internets.
You're talking about a Springfield XDM polymer-frame pistol, right? All lightweight polymer pistols are more difficult to shoot accurately than some large, heavy steel-frame piece.
- Jim
Fast, short-distance practical shooting has a different approach from long-distance bullseye shooting.
Have you read the Army or Marine pistol marksmanship manuals? They are posted all over the internets.
You're talking about a Springfield XDM polymer-frame pistol, right? All lightweight polymer pistols are more difficult to shoot accurately than some large, heavy steel-frame piece.
- Jim
Fear, anger, hatred, and greed. The devil's all-you-can-eat buffet.
Re: How to improve?
Trigger control can be achieved by three simple exercises - - - DRY FIRE - - - DRY FIRE - - - DRY FIRE. Focus on the front sight and "snap in" as the Marines say. Pay attention to where your sight is when the trigger breaks there should be little or no movement. 19 rounds at a stretch is quite a bit. I shoot in 5-10 shot strings allowing my arms to rest a little in between. Grip and arm strengthening exercises help too. Shooting was described as a semi-athletic sport years ago and with any sport you'll do better if your strengthen the muscle groups you use.
"To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Texas and Louisiana CHL Instructor, NRA Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Personal Protection and Refuse To Be A Victim Instructor
George Mason
Texas and Louisiana CHL Instructor, NRA Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Personal Protection and Refuse To Be A Victim Instructor
Re: How to improve?
Dry Firing and random snap caps (or empty casings) are good drills
Also try what is called the line drill. Draw a straight line on a target, and starting at the top, put four shots down the line, equally spaced. Then starting at the bottom, put for more rounds on the line (going up). This will help you determine your influence left to right, which can be mostly accounted for by trigger manipulation and grip pressure.
Magpul also has a good BSA (Balance of Speed and Accuracy Drill) where, from 3 yds, you shoot a number of rounds (3-5 is good) at a specific area (lets say a 10in circle) as fast as possible. Then move back to 7 yds and repeat, then move back to 15, ect. Make sure you're getting 90% of your rounds in the target area, this drill is meant to be shot fast. This drill is also great for carbines, though the distances will, of course, be different.
Here's a link to a sight with lots of good drills (there fast test is great to shoot at the end of a practice session)
http://pistol-training.com/drills
And here's a youtube video of one of their instructors shooting the drill
[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=qU3jceN4JAc[/youtube]
Also try what is called the line drill. Draw a straight line on a target, and starting at the top, put four shots down the line, equally spaced. Then starting at the bottom, put for more rounds on the line (going up). This will help you determine your influence left to right, which can be mostly accounted for by trigger manipulation and grip pressure.
Magpul also has a good BSA (Balance of Speed and Accuracy Drill) where, from 3 yds, you shoot a number of rounds (3-5 is good) at a specific area (lets say a 10in circle) as fast as possible. Then move back to 7 yds and repeat, then move back to 15, ect. Make sure you're getting 90% of your rounds in the target area, this drill is meant to be shot fast. This drill is also great for carbines, though the distances will, of course, be different.
Here's a link to a sight with lots of good drills (there fast test is great to shoot at the end of a practice session)
http://pistol-training.com/drills
And here's a youtube video of one of their instructors shooting the drill

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=qU3jceN4JAc[/youtube]
"Speed is fine accuracy is final."
-Wyatt Earp
"Great danger lies in the notion we can reason with evil."
-Winston Churchill
And the wind shall say 'Here were decent godless people'. Their only monument the asphalt road and a thousand lost golf balls.
-T.S Elliot
-Wyatt Earp
"Great danger lies in the notion we can reason with evil."
-Winston Churchill
And the wind shall say 'Here were decent godless people'. Their only monument the asphalt road and a thousand lost golf balls.
-T.S Elliot
Re: How to improve?
Good advice so far. And don't be too hard on yourself, that's not bad shooting for someone who doesn't shoot often. And for those who don't know, those targets at Red's are a fraction of the size of a standard DPS silhouette so even though you've got some flyers around the outer limits of the body outline, those would actually be at least a 4 score on DPS-size silhouette used in CHL qualifying.
That said, certainly room for improvement as you self-recognize. At 3 yards, with practice, you should be putting a single hole in the target. If that target was from 7 yards, I'd say "what're you complaining about?" Not perfect, but not half bad. If that target was from 15 yards, I'd be saying "stop your whinin' and show me how to shoot like that"
... anyway, you get my point.
For me (and I am by no means a "great shooter" - only above average at best, and then only on my good days and only from 10 yards in) the secret to any pistol shooting (bullseye or tactical) is to consistently replicate a solid, comfortable, accurate grip AND trigger control. But the grip comes first. If your grip is off or uncomfortable or somehow just "wrong", then practicing trigger control by dry firing is just reinforcing your bad grip which you'll have to overcome later.
Grips are very difficult to explain in print. But this is a fairly decent article explaining some good techniques http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_trai ... tg_100306/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Not the ONLY accceptable grip, but a good one used by many pros.
I use above (or at least am still trying to perfect it for myself) for semi-autos, but a different grip for revolvers (crossing off-hand thumb over shooting-hand thumb).
That said, certainly room for improvement as you self-recognize. At 3 yards, with practice, you should be putting a single hole in the target. If that target was from 7 yards, I'd say "what're you complaining about?" Not perfect, but not half bad. If that target was from 15 yards, I'd be saying "stop your whinin' and show me how to shoot like that"

For me (and I am by no means a "great shooter" - only above average at best, and then only on my good days and only from 10 yards in) the secret to any pistol shooting (bullseye or tactical) is to consistently replicate a solid, comfortable, accurate grip AND trigger control. But the grip comes first. If your grip is off or uncomfortable or somehow just "wrong", then practicing trigger control by dry firing is just reinforcing your bad grip which you'll have to overcome later.
Grips are very difficult to explain in print. But this is a fairly decent article explaining some good techniques http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_trai ... tg_100306/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Not the ONLY accceptable grip, but a good one used by many pros.
I use above (or at least am still trying to perfect it for myself) for semi-autos, but a different grip for revolvers (crossing off-hand thumb over shooting-hand thumb).
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Re: How to improve?
I agree with what has been posted so far, but there also seems to be an area not mentioned for improvement.
If you are fairly new to shooting, it is also possible your muscles are simply tiring faster than you realize. As the muscle wear out, you will lose some of the fine control needed for fine trigger control. This will make the group start to spread. In addition to the fingers and hand, your wrist may also need some strengthening.
One of the best ways to improve your finger and hand strength for shooting is the use of the hand squeeze springs. You need to make sure you get one that has the individual finger controls, as well as a general hand squeeze spring. The finger springs (like the ones sold for guitar players) will help the trigger finger and control. The hand spring will help the overall grip and wrist strength.
Or, fire more rounds and practice. Obviously, the more you do the same exercise (shooting) the better the muscles will get at it.
If you are fairly new to shooting, it is also possible your muscles are simply tiring faster than you realize. As the muscle wear out, you will lose some of the fine control needed for fine trigger control. This will make the group start to spread. In addition to the fingers and hand, your wrist may also need some strengthening.
One of the best ways to improve your finger and hand strength for shooting is the use of the hand squeeze springs. You need to make sure you get one that has the individual finger controls, as well as a general hand squeeze spring. The finger springs (like the ones sold for guitar players) will help the trigger finger and control. The hand spring will help the overall grip and wrist strength.
Or, fire more rounds and practice. Obviously, the more you do the same exercise (shooting) the better the muscles will get at it.
Steve Rothstein
Re: How to improve?
While agreeing with what everyone has posted, two things to add.
1) Get a piece of closet rod - wood 1" diameter, about 2-1/2 ft. long. Put a hole through the diameter about mid length, put about 4 ft of clothesline through the hole and tie a knot. Tie a plastic milk bottle (1/2 gal works fine) to the other end, and fill it with water or sand. Stand straight, hold the bar out in front of you, and wind it up - then wind it down. Repeat until your forearms are tired. Do this as often as you have time. Your grip will strengthen and groups will shrink. Alternate a narrow and wide grip and you work different muscle groups.
2) Get a .22 pistol - full-size, not an NAA mini-revolver - and bricks of .22 ammo (which is much cheaper than centerfire ammo for your carry pistol). Shoot one-hand Bullseye-style, using weak hand as well as strong hand. This is absolutely not "combat-style" shooting but it will help with that. Anything that gets you back to basics and makes them second nature will work in your favor.
Have fun!
Regards,
Andrew
1) Get a piece of closet rod - wood 1" diameter, about 2-1/2 ft. long. Put a hole through the diameter about mid length, put about 4 ft of clothesline through the hole and tie a knot. Tie a plastic milk bottle (1/2 gal works fine) to the other end, and fill it with water or sand. Stand straight, hold the bar out in front of you, and wind it up - then wind it down. Repeat until your forearms are tired. Do this as often as you have time. Your grip will strengthen and groups will shrink. Alternate a narrow and wide grip and you work different muscle groups.
2) Get a .22 pistol - full-size, not an NAA mini-revolver - and bricks of .22 ammo (which is much cheaper than centerfire ammo for your carry pistol). Shoot one-hand Bullseye-style, using weak hand as well as strong hand. This is absolutely not "combat-style" shooting but it will help with that. Anything that gets you back to basics and makes them second nature will work in your favor.
Have fun!
Regards,
Andrew
Retractable claws; the *original* concealed carry
Re: How to improve?
AndyC wrote:Accuracy first - once you can group (ie shoot consistently) well, you can then add speed into the mix.
You can't improve without an analysis of what you did right and wrong.
Shooting for accuracy isn't only physically tiring, it's mentally draining, too - and towards the end of those 19 rounds I can guarantee you that your mind is saying "Heck with it, just yank the trigger already."

NRA Endowment Member
Re: How to improve?
As other have said, don't load your mags with 19 rounds. Load them with 6 rounds. You are TEACHING yourself a physical skill using hand-eye coordination. At this stage in your training, you want to be shooting 1 or 2 shot groups. If your muscles and eyes are tired and straining, you won't be training efficiently. Rest your eyes and muscles while reloading the mag with another 6 rounds.
Don't shoot at big man sized targets. Buy or bring your own targets with 3" dots (6"dots, 10" dots, just so you have a specific aim point). Bring some masking tape. Tape your targets after every string. You pay Red's enough money for the lane, use that target holder motor and tape up your target. I only tape misses outside the circle. If you can't tape the target after every string, put enough 3" dots out there and use a different dot for every string. The point is to not have to guess where your shots go.
Dry fire can be good to build up good habits and muscle memory but your brain knows that it is dry fire. You can dry fire perfectly all day and still have flinch and jerk problems with live fire. The best drill to illustrate trigger control and flinch problems is the ball and dummy drill with dummy rounds that you mentioned.
As someone else mentioned, set yourself some goals. Figure out how much time, money(ammo) and effort you can put into it and set a goal.
Example: I want to be able to put 5 rounds into a 3" dot at 5 yards 2 times in a row. I can afford to practice 100 rounds every 2 weeks. I can dryfire for 30 min one day a week. I will reach my goal in 3 months.
Once you achieve a goal, set yourself another one.
That's how you improve.
Gringop
Don't shoot at big man sized targets. Buy or bring your own targets with 3" dots (6"dots, 10" dots, just so you have a specific aim point). Bring some masking tape. Tape your targets after every string. You pay Red's enough money for the lane, use that target holder motor and tape up your target. I only tape misses outside the circle. If you can't tape the target after every string, put enough 3" dots out there and use a different dot for every string. The point is to not have to guess where your shots go.
Dry fire can be good to build up good habits and muscle memory but your brain knows that it is dry fire. You can dry fire perfectly all day and still have flinch and jerk problems with live fire. The best drill to illustrate trigger control and flinch problems is the ball and dummy drill with dummy rounds that you mentioned.
As someone else mentioned, set yourself some goals. Figure out how much time, money(ammo) and effort you can put into it and set a goal.
Example: I want to be able to put 5 rounds into a 3" dot at 5 yards 2 times in a row. I can afford to practice 100 rounds every 2 weeks. I can dryfire for 30 min one day a week. I will reach my goal in 3 months.
Once you achieve a goal, set yourself another one.
That's how you improve.
Gringop
Re: How to improve?
The old trick of dry firing with a penny balanced on the front sight is good for trigger control and follow through.
When in doubt
Vote them out!
Vote them out!
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Re: How to improve?
Find an Ipsc or idpa club and join. shoot in some matches, watch the good shooters,ask questions and learn from them.
Re: How to improve?
So, I've been trying to implement some of the recommendations that people had, and wanted to share the results so far. The attached file shows the results of 100 rounds today at 7 yards. The first 95 were aimed center, the last 5 were aimed at the head cause well why not... If you recall the first image I posted in this thread was 3 yards. I think overall I'm doing ok. I've identified a couple little bad habits having to do with trigger control and a little flinch that I need to completely eliminate..
Further advice and/or techniques to improve shooting are certainly welcome. Thanks for everything so far.
Further advice and/or techniques to improve shooting are certainly welcome. Thanks for everything so far.