I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of some good resources for the rules that HOAs have to follow. Specifically, ours has turned into a bit of an overbearing organization and there are a few questions that I have and would like to site a legal backup when I have to talk to them. I really want to know how they can hold me accountable for covenants that I never agreed to or had a chance to review or even know about prior to a purchase. Was I supposed to do an open records request at the county courthouse prior to purchasing my house 18 months ago? And why is the interpretation and enforcement of rules changing now? Is there any way to disassociate myself from the HOA or better yet, to disband it completely - for the good of the whole neighborhood?
Thanks for the help, I know this is off topic.
Other legal resources
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I have heard of being kicked out of a house by the HOA and forced to sell it. Scary stuff for sure. I was lucky, our HOA is optional and it's mainly in place to take care of the neighborhood pool. Is there something specific they are pestering you about? I have heard of some pretty ridiculous rules from HOA's to the point that I will probably never buy a house in a neighborhood with a mandatory HOA.
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Call me young and stupid then, but almost all of the new homes in this area come with mandatory HOAs. And the only thing right now is some stupid lawn requirement - something that has been that way since before we bought the house that they are now complaining about.SW40VE wrote: I will probably never buy a house in a neighborhood with a mandatory HOA.
I would LOVE to live somewhere that didn't have any deed restrictions. But that isn't where I am right now and I want to make NOW better for myself and my children.
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kauboy
- Senior Member
- Posts: 846
- Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:15 pm
- Location: Burleson, Lone Star State (of course)
The best and only good way to take care of an HOA is to get yourself on the board. Rub elbows with them, do everything to the "T", and then once your on the board, be as stubborn as a mule. Don't agree with anything and do your darndest to create disention. Make up stupid rules like house colors must be neon green and purple ONLY. Stuff like that. It will take some time and money, but if you want to see them gone for good, its worth it. I will NEVER be part of one of these "fascist regimes". Tell me how tall to leave my grass... which tire would you like slashed first? Snobby bastards!
"People should not be afraid of their Governments.
Governments should be afraid of their people." - V
Governments should be afraid of their people." - V
HOAs do leave something to be desired, because they're private organizations with the authoritiy of government. That's pretty much the definition of fascism.
But as much as I dislike HOAs, they are vastly preferable to zoning.
When government can control you and your property through zoning, you're screwed. HOAs can be bad, but there are other HOAs out there. You're pretty much stuck with the same city government until election time.
Kevin
But as much as I dislike HOAs, they are vastly preferable to zoning.
When government can control you and your property through zoning, you're screwed. HOAs can be bad, but there are other HOAs out there. You're pretty much stuck with the same city government until election time.
Kevin
Join the board, or get some dirt on them.
When I lived with my parents, we were harassed by folks in the neighborhood all the time for stuff like parking in front of my neighbor's house overnight(its a public street?) and working on my car, and going over 5mph in the neighborhood.
Well, as many HOA regulations they knew, they weren't quite up to snuff on city regs. They got quite a few visits from Grapevine PD for parking their car on the sidewalk(even though it cut through their driveway) and for parking withing xx feet of the intersection on the main street.
After enough police visits, and enough times that I stood in front of their car in the street when they tried to speed through - they left us alone.
If I had owned the property, I would have joined the board and really irritated them off.
When I lived with my parents, we were harassed by folks in the neighborhood all the time for stuff like parking in front of my neighbor's house overnight(its a public street?) and working on my car, and going over 5mph in the neighborhood.
Well, as many HOA regulations they knew, they weren't quite up to snuff on city regs. They got quite a few visits from Grapevine PD for parking their car on the sidewalk(even though it cut through their driveway) and for parking withing xx feet of the intersection on the main street.
After enough police visits, and enough times that I stood in front of their car in the street when they tried to speed through - they left us alone.
If I had owned the property, I would have joined the board and really irritated them off.
HOAs are here to stay, so get used to them. All of the covenants are included in the paperwork you signed at closing on the home, so you can't claim that the information wasn't provided. You may not have read it all, but it was there. And if the info wasn't there, well that's another can of worms. The power of your HOA is contained within the covenant, so get intimately familiar with it and all of its conditions, provisions, etc. You need to know it backwards and forwards and consider hiring an attorney to review and spell out his understanding of it if you have any serious issues.
Then get involved with the HOA as so many have already suggested. Kiss some booty, be nice, play by the rules, and whatever else you need to do to get elected and then play hardball. Changing current provisions or adding new ones is generally a very difficult matter with very strict guidelines and associated details will be spelled out in the convenant or deed restrictions. You can use those procedures to work for you if needed. Pay special attention to the possibilities of voting by mail, quorum considerations, notification timelines and deadlines, too. You might be surprsied how much support a rational person on an HOA board will enjoy once elected!
I live in a community where some of the HOA must be former Nazis....They wanted to establish some nw guidelines for parking that were simply stupid. the City had nothing to say and would do nothing. Well, the HOA Nazis made their pitch, acted like bullies, and tried to scare everyone into going along with them. When the big night came for the vote, they didn't get the mandatory attendance needed for a "legal" vote and the issue died a quiet death. Call it passive aggression or simply apathy, but most people simply stayed home......Knowledge is power, so learn the convenants.
When all else fails, get dirt on the board members, make friends with someone named Guido, or get one of the good, old "How to Get Even" books available at all gun shows.
Good luck, stay strong, and keep the faith.
Then get involved with the HOA as so many have already suggested. Kiss some booty, be nice, play by the rules, and whatever else you need to do to get elected and then play hardball. Changing current provisions or adding new ones is generally a very difficult matter with very strict guidelines and associated details will be spelled out in the convenant or deed restrictions. You can use those procedures to work for you if needed. Pay special attention to the possibilities of voting by mail, quorum considerations, notification timelines and deadlines, too. You might be surprsied how much support a rational person on an HOA board will enjoy once elected!
I live in a community where some of the HOA must be former Nazis....They wanted to establish some nw guidelines for parking that were simply stupid. the City had nothing to say and would do nothing. Well, the HOA Nazis made their pitch, acted like bullies, and tried to scare everyone into going along with them. When the big night came for the vote, they didn't get the mandatory attendance needed for a "legal" vote and the issue died a quiet death. Call it passive aggression or simply apathy, but most people simply stayed home......Knowledge is power, so learn the convenants.
When all else fails, get dirt on the board members, make friends with someone named Guido, or get one of the good, old "How to Get Even" books available at all gun shows.
Good luck, stay strong, and keep the faith.
"There's no moral order. There is only this: can my violence conquer your violence?"
It was NOT provided. It really wasn't. I have all of the doccumentation that was provided in conjunction with the purchase of this house and I went through it all last night. The closest thing that was there was a PUD rider which said that the HOA existed, but none of the CC&R were ever provided to us until we found them on a website yesterday. They are filed with the county (supposedly, I haven't checked there yet), but at no point prior to closing were we provided a set of the guidelines.Afff_667 wrote:All of the covenants are included in the paperwork you signed at closing on the home, so you can't claim that the information wasn't provided. You may not have read it all, but it was there. And if the info wasn't there, well that's another can of worms.
This will probably be a legislative effort that I work towards in 2007. Just a couple of modifications (like disallowing MANDATORY HOAs) would make a world of difference.
Just FYI for everyone, from what I have been able to find - this is SOP for all HOAs. You have to be the one to go and find the CC&Rs, they will never be provided for you. So even if you never saw any restrictions ever, you are still bound by them if you signed that PUD rider. And there is no way you bought the house without signing that PUD rider in most new neighborhoods.
HOAs
I agree with the OP, I hate 'em.
I'm fortunate in that I live in a neighborhood with is sort of rural within the metroplex. It's on county land, not city. We do have a HOA, but it's voluntary, dues are $25 a year, and it was formed to fight annexation and to limit the growth of adjacent developments, all of which it has done. right now, there are no issues and the HOA just spends our dues on silly stuff. We do have a crime watch group, but it's ineffective.
They do not have any say about property upkeep, vehicle parking or any of that stuff. And I can shoot in my backyard.
I'm fortunate in that I live in a neighborhood with is sort of rural within the metroplex. It's on county land, not city. We do have a HOA, but it's voluntary, dues are $25 a year, and it was formed to fight annexation and to limit the growth of adjacent developments, all of which it has done. right now, there are no issues and the HOA just spends our dues on silly stuff. We do have a crime watch group, but it's ineffective.
They do not have any say about property upkeep, vehicle parking or any of that stuff. And I can shoot in my backyard.
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“Sometimes there is no alternative to uncertainty except to await the arrival of more and better data.” C. Wunsch
“Sometimes there is no alternative to uncertainty except to await the arrival of more and better data.” C. Wunsch
Rex - your post hit on the biggest difference in my line of thinking.
VOLUNTARY HOAs: Good. They have to be in order to continue to get your $$ each year. They are usually formed with good intentions and carried out well.
MANDATORY HOAs: Bad. They have you by the short hairs after you move in - especially with the current tactics of just slipping in the deed rider and the buyer never getting to see the restrictions. After all, are you really going to move over a few bucks per year? And where are you going to go since ALL (seems that way anyway) new developments have them?
I would really like to see mandatory HOAs outlawed in this state. I know it isn't CHL related, but can we add that to the legislative issues list for 2007? It is personal freedom / personal property related and that kinda fits with 2A personal freedom...
VOLUNTARY HOAs: Good. They have to be in order to continue to get your $$ each year. They are usually formed with good intentions and carried out well.
MANDATORY HOAs: Bad. They have you by the short hairs after you move in - especially with the current tactics of just slipping in the deed rider and the buyer never getting to see the restrictions. After all, are you really going to move over a few bucks per year? And where are you going to go since ALL (seems that way anyway) new developments have them?
I would really like to see mandatory HOAs outlawed in this state. I know it isn't CHL related, but can we add that to the legislative issues list for 2007? It is personal freedom / personal property related and that kinda fits with 2A personal freedom...
It works both ways. Many people want to live in a neighborhood with a strong homeowners association, so that someone doesn't set up a junk yard or pig farm next door.Kalrog wrote:I would really like to see mandatory HOAs outlawed in this state.... It is personal freedom / personal property related and that kinda fits with 2A personal freedom...
(I'm not one of those people and don't live in one of those neighborhoods. They probably wouldn't let me.)
- Jim
HOAs
I suggest we all start by writing our respective representatives.
I doubt we'd be able to outlaw mandatory HOAs. There are some people who will not buy in a development without a strong, mandatory HOA. That's fine, let them live there, far from me!
But I bet we could get some restrictions, and greater disclosure to prospective buyers. For example, make it easier to sue them. And make the key restrictions available to a prospective buyer in a one-page summary well before closing. Repeat that summary in the closing. Require the prospect be given a full, detailed explanation of the power of that HOA and the requirements on the homeowner at least 2 weeks before closing.
I doubt we'd be able to outlaw mandatory HOAs. There are some people who will not buy in a development without a strong, mandatory HOA. That's fine, let them live there, far from me!
But I bet we could get some restrictions, and greater disclosure to prospective buyers. For example, make it easier to sue them. And make the key restrictions available to a prospective buyer in a one-page summary well before closing. Repeat that summary in the closing. Require the prospect be given a full, detailed explanation of the power of that HOA and the requirements on the homeowner at least 2 weeks before closing.
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“Sometimes there is no alternative to uncertainty except to await the arrival of more and better data.” C. Wunsch
“Sometimes there is no alternative to uncertainty except to await the arrival of more and better data.” C. Wunsch
Re: HOAs
Rex, those are all reasonable suggestions and I intend to do just that on both a local and state level. There have also been some additional federal restrictions recently, but I would rather see this handled at a state/local level. Ideally it could be tied in with the Kelo decision and enhance property rights all around.Rex B wrote:I suggest we all start by writing our respective representatives.
I doubt we'd be able to outlaw mandatory HOAs. There are some people who will not buy in a development without a strong, mandatory HOA. That's fine, let them live there, far from me!
But I bet we could get some restrictions, and greater disclosure to prospective buyers. For example, make it easier to sue them. And make the key restrictions available to a prospective buyer in a one-page summary well before closing. Repeat that summary in the closing. Require the prospect be given a full, detailed explanation of the power of that HOA and the requirements on the homeowner at least 2 weeks before closing.