Phoenix Arms HP22A as woman's defense pistol?

[daddySEAL]

Ok, Ok...please hear me out before you laugh at my topic...HeHe!
I have been a CHL holder for many years. My girlfriend is getting concerned about the violent crime increase for the past few years...and wants a small defense pistol to carry, after I get her into a CHL class.

She has been to the range with me many times, and dislikes the recoil of my 9mm's and .40 pistols.
I found this gun today a Phoenix Arms HP22A:
http://www.impactguns.com/store/753733102335.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

While a .22 can mostly not be considered a good caliber for defense(please read last statement before you judge this), I have watched YouTube videos of it being used...one by a woman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSBczkxgGFs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vi_cDL3 ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04Y0mWcXPOI" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Stopping power" with a single round (with all but a good headshot) is not the point, but 10 rapid fire rounds in the size of a small paper plate at 7 yards...sounds like a "number 4 buck" shotgun equivalent.

Given the very low recoil and muzzel flip...and her comfort with using this caliber in a Very Short pistol (compared recoil on sub-compacts with higher caliber ammo) and ease of rapid firing it...

Now, please give me your thought, Please?

dS

[cubbyjg]

Ive always been told something is better than nothing, to shoot what you are most comfortable with and go with something you will always carry. If it will stop or even deter a threat, its a plus in my book. What about a .380 or something similar?

[karder]

Obviously shot placement is king. If she can shoot a .22 accurately and confidently AND the same is not true in a larger caliber, she should go with a .22. I have a Walther TPH in .22lr that I used to carry regularly. It is very reliable and extremely accurate for a pistol of that size and I can dump 7 rounds in about 3 seconds and get them all on target. As long as the Phoenix is reliable, I would not discourage you getting it for your girlfriend.

Have you thought about .38 special? For my money it is tough to beat a .38 revolver as a reliable self-defense weapon for a person who does not have an interest in guns and only wants something to protect themselves. Actually, a .38 snubbie is a great choice for anyone, but the simplicity of the weapon gives it a major advantage in the hand of a novice shooter.

[seniorshooteress]

As a female, I can understand your girlfriend. When I first started shooting I didn't think I could handle the recoil of higher caliber guns either but after I started going to the range on a regular basis I noticed the recoil not being so bad. I had gotten a Kel-Tec P11 (9mm) and I couldn't handle the recoil so I traded it back to the dealer for a Glock 26. I got a Kel-Tec .32 and used that as my carry (glock was too big )then went from that to the LCP which is a bit snappy but I can hit what I aim for with it and practice at least once a week. I wish I had just kept the Kel-Tec cause I bet now that my hand is used to shooting a higher caliber that I wouldn't feel the recoil as bad as when I first started shooting. The Bersa Thunder .380 is on the small side and almost no recoil to it at all, that I can feel. I am not a large female either. 5', 119lbs. I think if she got used to shooting on a regular basis, she too, would find the recoil on a higher caliber than a 22lr, not so bad at all and would have better stopping power. A .38spl revolver isn't that bad either on recoil. But whatever she prefers to carry and practice with, is better than nothing.

[blue]

Welcome to her

$0.02-
Get 2-3 or more .22lr pistols and revolvers and a brick of .22lr (500) or 2 (1000) and let her shoot it all.

When She is comfy and good with safety, accuracy, and all the basics, then go to a range with a good selection of rental guns and find what SHE is comfortable with. Color,etc. of rental doesn't matter as its just a 'test drive'. Later go shopping!

X2 on a .38 Special revolver. Several sizes and fancy as you want to have.
If 'the right one' has a .357 mag choice of caliber, then she gets Mild to Wild by simply changing ammo.


Do note that she needs to use a semi-auto for the license test for both catagory on license (same exact test!) but thats only a few minutes / 50 rounds. (some classes have a rental for test- if lucky a big clunky 9mm with low recoil!)

----See womens forum this site,lots of info there!-----

Good Luck,
Blue

P.S. use Good ear plugs AND Good ear muffs, BOTH at the same time WILL Really reduce recoil a lot!
-That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!!!- (it really does help)

[MoJo]

I am not a fan of .22 for self defense. Phoenix Arms is a direct descendant of Jennings/Bryco/Raven I wold be very hesitant to buy one based on the gun's genealogy. Both Beretta and Taurus make a nice little .22 that would be far superior and in the case of the Taurus won't cost much more than the Phoenix.

I have one of the Taurus PT22s and it is a handy little gun just too small in caliber. Have you considered a .32? The .327 Federal Mag looks to be pretty good and has lighter recoil.

http://www.berettausa.com/products/model-21-bobcat/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.taurususa.com/gun-selector-r ... &toggle=tp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[quidni]

Better the .22 in the hand than the .45 left at home.

Give her time and gradual exposure to all kinds of calibers in all kinds of platforms. A .38 or .357 feels different in a lever gun compared to a revolver. Or a .410 in a shotty, compared to the Judge. Eventually, she may "graduate" to something larger on her own, as she becomes more comfortable with shooting in general.

[fm2]

My girlfriend is getting concerned about the violent crime increase for the past few years...and wants a small defense pistol to carry, after I get her into a CHL class.dS

The first step looks like getting slotted in a CHL class & passing it. Can she run one of your semi-autos enough to pass the CHL test or does she need a 380?

One very skilled person I know recommends the Beretta 21 in 22lr with the crimson trace laser. After getting the reliability tested out, I think that combo is hard to beat. He also recomends using high quality target ammo that shoots to point of aim of the sights. There is also a new S&W 22lr Centenial revolver, if she likes revolvers. I've heard that the triggers on them can be kinda stiff, ymmv.

[74novaman]

Lots of people get killed with .22s. Though I think she's def going to have to train to "shoot until the threat is stopped"....and carry some reloads!

[texas1234]

You need to listen to the audio of the 911 call of the women who is shooting her attacker with a small caliber pistol. Unfortunately while she is shooting him numerous times, it is not killing him, and he is stabbing her death the entire time the 911 call is recording it. To this day it makes me physically ill to think about that audio but it has never left my mind.

For home defense my wife has a .20 gauge with 000 buckshot.

The .22 is better than nothing but just let her know if she is going to carry she needs to carry something that is going to put someone down as fast as possible. In a bad situation she wont notice the recoil.

[fickman]

First, get her a screen name and have her post these questions herself! She can see that most of the community is polite, helpful, and concerned for her safety - not judgmental.

A .22 would be a last resort. My wife carries either a Smith & Wesson 642 with .38+p or a Springfield XD subcompact .40. My sister carries a .32 and her husband (LEO) and I continue to plead with her to upgrade.

Pulling the trigger will be the last resort during the worst situation you can imagine. When it comes to that, you want a solution that will protect her as much as possible. . . the largest caliber she can safely carry (and will actually carry). A 9mm or .38 would be much more effective and there are dozens of options to find one of those in a platform she's comfortable with.

I agree that there are a lot of people in the grave from a .22 wound, but lethal / non-lethal isn't the concern. . . it's stopping power during an attack. I'd rather put two huge .45 size holes in a BG to stop them immediately and have them recover in the hospital than put a .22 size hole in a BG that kills them half an hour too late.

That's my opinion. . .

(A .22 for a range gun is always a good idea. If you've got the funds, go ahead and pick one up to practice with. She can conceal it while she looks for something better, but plead with her to look for something better.)

[The Annoyed Man]

Here is what the late Jeff Cooper had to say about .22 caliber pistols. It may surprise some of you. It did me:

On the subject of the .22 pocket pistol, obviously the .22 rimfire cartridge does not dispose of any considerable power. However, it will penetrate the skull of a human being (most of the time), and if it is properly placed, it may render good service. A pocket .22 pistol in the hands of a delicately constructed lady with slender wrists and modest musculature may indeed suffice as a personal defense weapon, especially when one considers that a defensive pistol serves its purpose more than half the time by its mere presence, regardless of whether it is fired or not. The .22 rimfire cartridge offers a larger opportunity for practice than any centerfire round. When the ladies and children of your household discover how much fun it is to plink with a .22 pistol, they may well practice enough to develop the sort of skill necessary to render the little gun quite serviceable for personal protection.

The leaders in this category for much of the 20th century have been the Walther PPK and PP—in caliber .22 LR. I now discover, to my dismay, that these little pieces are almost impossible to locate for sale in this country. Their clones, manufactured in Hungary and Turkey, are equally hard to come by. Many years ago when we were living in California I purchased four PPKs for distribution to various ladies in our immediate circle. I wish that I had bought 50 of them!

LINKEY

[gringop]

For someone to deliberately purchase a 22 as a self-defense gun is pure folly. And to buy a Phoenix Arms as a self-defense gun is to compound the folly. It's a cheap pot metal gun in a plinking caliber.

The cartridge is not a proven man stopper, it doesn't penetrate, it doesn't expand and no competent self-defense instructor in the civilian, LEO or military areas would be willing to testify in court that they recommend carrying a 22 for self-defense.

Many people have been killed by 22s but not many were instantaneously stopped. That is what is needed. Even with normal self-defense calibers it is probable that 2,3, or even 5 accurate shots will be needed to stop an attack. Do you really want to give your loved one a pistol that may require 10 good hits and still not be effective?

22s are great for teaching firearm skills and having fun. They are definitely not great for self-defense.

Gringop

[WildBill]

For someone to deliberately purchase a 22 as a self-defense gun is pure folly. And to buy a Phoenix Arms as a self-defense gun is to compound the folly. It's a cheap pot metal gun in a plinking caliber. Gringop

Go with her to the gun store and let her pick out her own "Defense Pistol." Caliber .38 or larger. IMO, any pistol, regardless of caliber, made by an inferior manufacturer, is not a suitable pistol for self defense or any other purpose. They should be melted down and used to make boat anchors.

[srothstein]

I agree about getting a quality firearm but disagree about the folly of the 22LR. I strongly recommend getting the biggest pistol you can control for defense, but I recognize that might very well be the 22. As has been pointed out, if it is carried and the person would not carry the larger/heavier caliber, then the 22 is a great gun. The best self defense gun is the one you feel comfortable carrying 24/7. As Col. Cooper pointed out, the mere presence of the gun is enough in many cases, and one of the best examples of this was the 82 year old being beaten by the thug who took her cane. It doesn't matter what caliber her pistol was, just hearing the shots fired did the job.

I personally know of people who have been killed by a single 22 shot and I also have had to fight down and subdue people who have been hit by multiple 22 shots. I am not nearly as sure as Col. Cooper of the penetration of the skull, but the one case I am familiar with, the round hit just above the eyebrows, and that is one of the hardest parts of the skull.

If a 22 is all she will carry, get her a quality 22. But try and talk her up to something better when you can.