.380 JHP

[AggieLCP]

For .380 target ammo check out Natchez Shooters Supply, Midway USA, and LTD Ammo.

I've bought from each. Decent prices. Might have to check daily, but every now and then one has some in stock. I've given up on Walmart and Academy for .380.

[Adionik]

You just have to be persistent with calling Academy and eventually they will have some in stock. I call every other day if i'm not busy, and they're usually willing to hold a few boxes for you.

[RPB]

I buy a lot of .380 from my local True Value hardware store, but also keep an eye on the ammo search engine to compare prices and find hard to find stuff sometimes
http://www.ammoengine.com/find/ammo/.38 ... =1&group=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Current (today) JHP Prices:
MagTech +P Guardian Gold $0.72 cents per round ($14.47 per box) (LESS THAN 30 boxes still available)
Winchester $0.69 cents/round
Speer Gold Dot $0.94 cents/round
Aguila $0.44 cents/round
PCI $1.00 per round

[wrinkles]

Terminal ballistics experts recommend using FMJ for .380s because none of the HP .380 rounds meet International Wound Ballistics Association or FBI standards for expansion and penetration.

Here's a link to some of the testing done.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/test_da ... xt-b85.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[G26ster]

Terminal ballistics experts recommend using FMJ for .380s because none of the HP .380 rounds meet International Wound Ballistics Association or FBI standards for expansion and penetration.

Here's a link to some of the testing done.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/test_da ... xt-b85.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I note the test was conducted in 1999. I wonder if some of today's JHP ammo, such as Pow'RBall, which is designed to penetrate clothing before expansion, would have satisfied the standard.

[driver8]

I have heard that before and it never made sense to me. What does the FMJ do better than the JHP? The only thing I can think of is the FMJ is cheaper.

[gigag04]

If you live in SA make the drive to GT's.

[Originalist]

If you live in SA make the drive to GT's.

Ok, don't laugh too hard, what is GT's?

[USA1]

If you live in SA make the drive to GT's.

Ok, don't laugh too hard, what is GT's?

http://www.gtdist.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[gigag04]

If you live in SA make the drive to GT's.

Ok, don't laugh too hard, what is GT's?

http://www.gtdist.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A "cop shop" can't do it justice...it's a great store really...and sell all ammo and most guns to general public too. Their ammo prices are great and they have DECENT supply levels of most self defense calibers. They have a neat wall full of long guns too. Their holster selection is ok too, but its mainly centered around full size duty type weapons.

[wrinkles]

I note the test was conducted in 1999. I wonder if some of today's JHP ammo, such as Pow'RBall, which is designed to penetrate clothing before expansion, would have satisfied the standard.

No, there still isn't a .380 HP round that meets the requirements. The only one that has come close is the Hornady 90gr XTP.

I have heard that before and it never made sense to me. What does the FMJ do better than the JHP? The only thing I can think of is the FMJ is cheaper.

In .380 an FMJ will penetrate deep enough to reach vital organs even at less than optimal angles an HP will not. In most tests the .380 hp penetrated 7 or 9 inches an FMJ will penetrate about 16".

Got to remember that unlike the targets we shoot at when at the range, a bad guy will not stand static in front of you with arms at his side. You might have to shoot a moving target, through a forearm, hand, or shoulder so t he bullet must penetrate past those obstacles and still reach the vital organs. The only way a to reliably stop a bad guy is through blood loss or a central nervous hit.

[texjames]

You just have to be persistent with calling Academy and eventually they will have some in stock. I call every other day if i'm not busy, and they're usually willing to hold a few boxes for you.

I agree on that...our Academy gets in about 12 box's of Hornady Critcal Defense 380 and i kept just missing out.
I finally caught some.Of the 12 box's 8 were left and i got mine...he said it sells out in one day.
Our last Gun Show a guy had some fairly cheap practice 380 i picked up.

[RPB]

I'm only about 13 inches front to back. My heart is certainly no deeper than 7 or 9 inches.... more like 3 or 4 inches... so a 16" penetration would go through me and keep going to find a second target.

I'll stick with +P or "over standard pressure" JHP which approaches a lightweight 9mm ballistics, expands to cause a larger wound channel, faster bleedout and dumps all energy inside instead of to pass through and keep going..
If I need to shoot a 400 pound wild boar, where it needs to penetrate deeper, I'll aim at that pig's head/spinal cord etc and repeat until it gets discouraged.

I use Hornady Critcal Defense for 9mm, but either MagTech Guardian Gold +P or CorBon for .380, since mine is locked breech instead of blowback.

[wrinkles]

I'm only about 13 inches front to back. My heart is certainly no deeper than 7 or 9 inches.... more like 3 or 4 inches... so a 16" penetration would go through me and keep going to find a second target.

I'll stick with +P or "over standard pressure" JHP which approaches a lightweight 9mm ballistics, expands to cause a larger wound channel, faster bleedout and dumps all energy inside instead of to pass through and keep going..
If I need to shoot a 400 pound wild boar, where it needs to penetrate deeper, I'll aim at that pig's head/spinal cord etc and repeat until it gets discouraged.

I use Hornady Critcal Defense for 9mm, but either MagTech Guardian Gold +P or CorBon for .380, since mine is locked breech instead of blowback.

Yes you are right about not being much over 13" thick, but bad guys will more than likely not be static targets with arms at the sides. At angles you will have to shoot through an arm or shoulder. At these angles the vitals are beyond 7" inches. A classic example would be the Miami shoot out. Agent Dove shot Platt with a 115gr 9mm through the shoulder. The bullet stopped about 1" from the heart. The 115gr silver tip the FBI used at the time was know for it's energy dump and rapid expansion. Platt killed agent Dove after taking that hit. Energy dump does not wound, pistol rounds do not have enough energy to reliably wound via "energy dump". Hornady CD ammo also does not pass FBI protocol. The only thing Honrady CD ammo has going for it is an aggressive add campaign.

The document is dated but still holds true.
A quote from the document:

Kinetic energy does not wound. Temporary cavity does not wound. The much discussed "shock" of bullet impact is a fable and "knock down" power is a myth. The critical element is penetration. The bullet must pass through the large, blood bearing organs and be of sufficient diameter to promote rapid bleeding. Penetration less than 12 inches is too little, and, in the words of two of the participants in the 1987 Wound Ballistics Workshop, "too little penetration will get you killed." 42,43 Given desirable and reliable penetration, the only way to increase bullet effectiveness is to increase the severity of the wound by increasing the size of hole made by the bullet. Any bullet which will not penetrate through vital organs from less than optimal angles is not acceptable. Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet.44

A must read for anybody who carries.
http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;