Road rage incident with CHL involved

[Manfred]

I am seeing a lot of "lets wait until we get all the facts" post.

The facts are idiot hits car, idiot shoots through back window car, idiot kills innocent 13 year old child.

I would have a tough time dreaming up scenarios where shooting at a moving car would be justified period. Primary reason being -one cannot see in the car-. You could have a baby seat in the back, or two, or any number of innocent people in the car. Your in a car...just stop...turn left...turn right...turn around.

It is sad that a media outlet wants to label the person as a "CHL holder", when carrying in your car is legal. Historically everyone from cops to military personel to state officials have done stupid things that resulted in innocent lives lost. He is just a person, a very, very, very stupid person, who deserves to, and is going to end up in jail for a very, very long time.

[baldeagle]

I am seeing a lot of "lets wait until we get all the facts" post.

The facts are idiot hits car, idiot shoots through back window car, idiot kills innocent 13 year old child.

I would have a tough time dreaming up scenarios where shooting at a moving car would be justified period. Primary reason being -one cannot see in the car-. You could have a baby seat in the back, or two, or any number of innocent people in the car. Your in a car...just stop...turn left...turn right...turn around.

It is sad that a media outlet wants to label the person as a "CHL holder", when carrying in your car is legal. Historically everyone from cops to military personel to state officials have done stupid things that resulted in innocent lives lost. He is just a person, a very, very, very stupid person, who deserves to, and is going to end up in jail for a very, very long time.

The point is, those are not the facts. Those are what the media reported. We won't know the facts until they come out in court. If you read the story from 2005 (linked earlier in this thread), you will find that the "facts" that were initially reported were quite a bit different from reality. The media has a clear agenda. They are opposed to citizens owning firearms. Their stories reflect that bias.

[03Lightningrocks]

I am seeing a lot of "lets wait until we get all the facts" post.

The facts are idiot hits car, idiot shoots through back window car, idiot kills innocent 13 year old child.

I would have a tough time dreaming up scenarios where shooting at a moving car would be justified period. Primary reason being -one cannot see in the car-. You could have a baby seat in the back, or two, or any number of innocent people in the car. Your in a car...just stop...turn left...turn right...turn around.

It is sad that a media outlet wants to label the person as a "CHL holder", when carrying in your car is legal. Historically everyone from cops to military personel to state officials have done stupid things that resulted in innocent lives lost. He is just a person, a very, very, very stupid person, who deserves to, and is going to end up in jail for a very, very long time.

The point is, those are not the facts. Those are what the media reported. We won't know the facts until they come out in court. If you read the story from 2005 (linked earlier in this thread), you will find that the "facts" that were initially reported were quite a bit different from reality. The media has a clear agenda. They are opposed to citizens owning firearms. Their stories reflect that bias.

No...there is no bias. Mr. gun tough guy should not have fired rounds at a car that was no longer a threat to him.... just as Mr gun tough guy should not be firing guns at folks who are not a threat to them. Mr. gun tough guy was not military or police so any comments about what military and police accidents have resulted in mean NOTHING! Bald Eagle, are you a relative of this guy (Mr Gun Tough Guy) or something?

[baldeagle]

No...there is no bias. Mr. gun tough guy should not have fired rounds at a car that was no longer a threat to him.... just as Mr gun tough guy should not be firing guns at folks who are not a threat to them. Mr. gun tough guy was not military or police so any comments about what military and police accidents have resulted in mean NOTHING! Bald Eagle, are you a relative of this guy (Mr Gun Tough Guy) or something?

How do you know the car was no longer a threat to him? How do you know that the people in the other car were not a threat to him? You don't. You know what the media has told you, which is the same as knowing nothing. That's my point. I'm not related to the guy - don't even live in the same part of the state. But I'm well acquainted with media bias, and I can assure you that the story of what happened that night could be quite different from what we all "know" now. That's all I'm saying. I'm not trying to make excuses for the guy or say that what he did was right. I'm saying I don't know what the truth is, and I refuse to judge him, or you, or anyone else, until I know the truth.

[03Lightningrocks]

No...there is no bias. Mr. gun tough guy should not have fired rounds at a car that was no longer a threat to him.... just as Mr gun tough guy should not be firing guns at folks who are not a threat to them. Mr. gun tough guy was not military or police so any comments about what military and police accidents have resulted in mean NOTHING! Bald Eagle, are you a relative of this guy (Mr Gun Tough Guy) or something?

How do you know the car was no longer a threat to him? How do you know that the people in the other car were not a threat to him? You don't. You know what the media has told you, which is the same as knowing nothing. That's my point. I'm not related to the guy - don't even live in the same part of the state. But I'm well acquainted with media bias, and I can assure you that the story of what happened that night could be quite different from what we all "know" now. That's all I'm saying. I'm not trying to make excuses for the guy or say that what he did was right. I'm saying I don't know what the truth is, and I refuse to judge him, or you, or anyone else, until I know the truth.

You can always get away from another vehicle in a car. you can lead them to the police station. you can turn. I am surprised you don't know this. Maybe one day you will remember me telling you this. Good luck with it and I hope you never decide to blast away with your gun while playing chase on the highway. This is a pretty old thread and I have said my piece, so I will leave it at this. A CHL is not for REVENGE... it is for self defense...ONLY. Self defense ends when the threat ends. Use this as your montra and you will always win out in any usage situation. I hope that piece of garbage rots in hell forever for killing that child. my same prayer would be for you or any other retard who abused the RKBA and killed an innocent child. No excuse for it...EVER!!!


This quote from the story tells you all you need to know about Mr Gun Tough Guy.

One of the bullets went through the back windshield of Randle's Altima and hit her daughter in the head.

Get it??? This means that piece of garbage could have simply slowed down and not chased that car. See how Mr.Gun Tough guy deserves to die for what he did??? I sure do.

[Oldgringo]

Some of the "what-if" & "get-even" posts on this forum from noobie CH licensees and CHL applicants scare the be-jabbers out of me. The incident as reported above is an example of a gun in the hands of the wrong person at the wrong time and for the wrong reasons. This shooter is a blight on all mature and responsible CH licensees everywhere.

Get a rope! This guy should be strung up publicly as a lesson to all of the Batman wannabees who are running loose with a gun - licensed or not.

03lightningrocks said it and I believe it.

[baldeagle]

Some of the "what-if" & "get-even" posts on this forum from noobie CH licensees and CHL applicants scare the be-jabbers out of me. The incident as reported above is an example of a gun in the hands of the wrong person at the wrong time and for the wrong reasons. This shooter is a blight on all mature and responsible CH licensees everywhere.

Get a rope! This guy should be strung up publicly as a lesson to all of the Batman wannabees who are running loose with a gun - licensed or not.

03lightningrocks said it and I believe it.

Yes, the incident "as reported" is an example of a gun in the hands of the wrong person.

What scares me more is the incredible quickness to judge a fellow CHL holder without knowing what really happened. I'm old enough to have learned that things aren't always as they seem, and jumping to conclusions based on parts of a story can often lead to terrible consequences. Perhaps you should put away the rope and let justice take its course. If our forebears had chosen that path, some innocent people would have lived a lot longer.

[Oldgringo]

Baldeagle:

Is a young girl dead and was she shot in the head through the back window of her vehicle by a young man in a "fancy" civilian vehicle that was (unlawfully ?) pursuing her vehicle? That seems to be agreed on by all as a fact.

I am waiting on the justification for that shooting. ITMT, keep the rope handy. This action by this person is an undeserved and unfavorable reflection on me and all of the other responsible and mature CH/CW licensees everywhere...and, this CHL does not appreciate nor need the bad publicity.

[08thunders]

You can always get away from another vehicle in a car. you can lead them to the police station. you can turn. I am surprised you don't know this. Maybe one day you will remember me telling you this.

If she followed your advice her daughter would still be alive.

[Oldgringo]

You can always get away from another vehicle in a car. you can lead them to the police station. you can turn. I am surprised you don't know this. Maybe one day you will remember me telling you this.

If she followed your advice her daughter would still be alive.

{SIGH} , and if "hot-rod, make my day, junior' hadn't shot out her rear window, her daughter would still be alive.

These are the kind of comments that give me pause and the anti-gun crowd fodder for their virulent attacks on our RKBA. Gooood Grief!

[08thunders]

Good advice for both of them.

[baldeagle]

Calderon is saying that it was self defense and that he feared for his life. Furthermore, he claims that Randle is lying about the events of that tragic night - http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/lo ... r-in-court" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. He's also saying that he saw something "shiny being pointed out the window". I think the fact that the news media is using "Road Rage Incident" in the headlines paints the incident in a way that makes Calderon look guilty of a terrible crime and helps people to ignore some of the things that don't add up in this story.

It remains to be seen what the facts are. Remember, the victim's mother raced to catch up with his car to get his license number and then passed him, an action that could appear to him as an attempt to get a good shot off at him. If he did something shiny pointing out of the car window, he may well have reasonably believed that it was a gun and his life was in danger.

Again, I emphasize that the loss of most lives is tragic. (I certainly wouldn't label the execution of Kenneth MacDuff as tragic.) It certainly would have been better if Calderon had chosen some other course of action. But we do not know all the facts at this point, and to prejudge Calderon and call him an animal and insist that he be severely punished is premature, in my opinion.

[03Lightningrocks]

You can always get away from another vehicle in a car. you can lead them to the police station. you can turn. I am surprised you don't know this. Maybe one day you will remember me telling you this.

If she followed your advice her daughter would still be alive.

Unfortunately... Dumb comments like this have become quite common on the forum and we are forbidden by forum rules from responding in the appropriate manner. Read the article new guy. She got his license number and then attempted to move on. If your wife ever writes down a plate number do you want the guy in that car to uload his gun into her car... I dont believe you do.

[.45mac.40]

Senseless ...

But having a CHL didn't make him better, nor worse of a person ...
Heck, he's probaly one of many, who had / have, guns in their cars. (( CHL or NOT ))

Mac

[Manfred]

...It remains to be seen what the facts are. Remember, the victim's mother raced to catch up with his car to get his license number and then passed him, an action that could appear to him as an attempt to get a good shot off at him. If he did something shiny pointing out of the car window, he may well have reasonably believed that it was a gun and his life was in danger.....

The shiny object he "allegedly" saw out the window could have been the 13 year old childs hand held video game, or a ding dong wrapper from her lunch box also. Given the guy had just hit her car and ran, her speeding to pass him could have been a scared Mom trying to get away from him.

I think the two point that you cannot get around are:

* He shot a 13 year old child...through the back of a car that was driving away from him.
* He was shooting at a vehicle...that he could not clearly see in to...that was moving...on a public road, etc, etc...

And just because someone has a CHL doesnt make them a member of some club I'm a part of any more than someone with a drivers license who kills someone while driving drunk is a "fellow driver". The military/cop reference earlier was intended to preclude the idea that having a CHL somehow contributed to this guys stupid behavior.

True he is entitled to due process, etc...but this is something that will follow him around for the rest of his life. There are some "mistakes"(I'm using that word generously) you just dont make.