Semi- or Revolver?

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Yankee Girl
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Semi- or Revolver?

Post by Yankee Girl »

While I'm waiting on my license, I'm working on what to carry (and where, and how, and all that). I love my Sig P250 (compact), but it's a bit big to hide on my relative short (5'3") and chunky-monkey bod, so I've been asking friends and associates for advice on a good carry gun. At least three of them have come down firmly on the side of revolvers because of the possibility of a semi- getting "out of battery" and becoming useless until the jam is cleared.

All the revolvers I've looked at are relatively thick in the middle (duh ...) and seem like they'd be harder to carry concealed in a waistband holder, and I have virtually no experience shooting one. Not that would slow me down if I went that direction - I can make the time to get the practice - just don't have much knowledge currently.

So my question to those with experience of both types of handguns is - is that risk of an out-of-battery jam significant enough to avoid semi-'s? Are there relatively thin revolvers? I have reasonably sized hands (I wear a men's medium or women's large in gloves) and good hand strength - just not a lot of room on my torso. Maybe I could get lipo suction in a gun shape to provide a custom recess, LOL LOL.

All advice and opinions welcome. :bigear:
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Re: Semi- or Revolver?

Post by MoJo »

Hi Yankee Girl, the chances of an out of battery situation with a semi is about as good as winning the power ball. Any handgun that is carried on the person must be in a holster so that in its self will prevent the slide from coming out of battery. A revolver is no harder nor easier to conceal than a semi. Women, due to their shape have problems concealing a gun on body that men don't have. Find a holster that's comfortable and start padking that Sig 250 I seriously doubt you'll have any problem.
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A-R
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Re: Semi- or Revolver?

Post by A-R »

I carry both revolver and semi-auto. Depends on my mood and what I'm wearing/where I'm going, which I decide to carry on any given day.

A 5-shot snub-nose .38-caliber revolver (~2-inch barrel) is a great concealed carry choice. Small enough to fit into my front pocket - YMMV. But also carries comfortably in a belt holster inside or outside waistband. Smith & Wesson J-frame is the old standard. Ruger LCR is a nice, newer polymer-framed choice. Other choices out there as well. These can be a bit trickier to learn to shoot well, but not an unattainable skill by any means.

For slim semi-autos, I love my Walther PPS. Kahr also gets good reviews from a lot of people (but I had a problem with mine, so am not a fan). Taurus 709 "Slim" is another possibility. And of course the plethora of thin .380 semi-autos - Walther PPK, Bersa Thunder .380, Sig P232, Sig P238, etc.

As for reliability, a quality semi-auto should be every bit as reliable as a revolver. But there are potential problems with both designs. The out-of-battery jams of a semi-auto you've already mentioned; and some failures - like a failed recoil spring - cannot be fixed with a tap-rack-bang while "in the fight", which makes your semi-auto into nearly useless blunt-force weapon. Revolvers typically have fewer problems, but they are not fool proof. "Timing" of the cylinder lining up with the barrel and firing pin is probably the biggest culprit in revolver problems.

Edited to add: Mojo posted while I was still typing, and he's absolutely right that failures with quality semi-autos are rare. My reason for carrying a revolver occasionally is that it is very good front-pocket gun. Just put it in a simple pocket holster, toss it in the pocket, perhaps a speed strip or speedloader of backup ammo in the other pocket, and out the door you go. No muss, no fuss. 5 reliable rounds of .38 +P at your finger tips if you ever need it.
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Re: Semi- or Revolver?

Post by carlson1 »

The other guys are right. I carry revolvers, but it is a personal preference. Whatever you are comfortable with carry it.
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Re: Semi- or Revolver?

Post by USA1 »

Yankee Girl wrote:
All advice and opinions welcome. :bigear:
OK, you asked for it. ;-)

IMO, the most all around practical self defense gun is the 5 shot lightweight snubnose revolver.
They are easy to load, easy to clean, easy to maintain, and easy to put into action under the most
stressful circumstances.

Even though they are "thick" at the cylinder, the gun is overall small and very easy to conceal.
You might be surprised how well it hides and how comfortable it is to carry all day long.

Also, the .38 +P round is considered by most to be a more than adequate self defense caliber.

food for thought
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Re: Semi- or Revolver?

Post by PUCKER »

I've been primarily carrying a Kimber Compact Aluminum (.45 ACP 1911 pistol with a 4" barrel) with an IWB holster and it was very comfy. Then, a few weeks ago, the clouds parted, the sun shined down upon me (actually Academy, where I purchased "the game changer") and I saw the light ( :biggrinjester: ). By that I mean this - I finally purchased a lightweight J-Frame S&W revolver. I bought the new S&W Bodyguard in .38 Special +P. It's LIGHT, as in so LIGHT that I can literally forget that it's there! I currently carry it in my front right pocket, and that's usually in cargo shorts. It's got a laser too. Academy carries it for $479.99, quite a deal! I ordered up some HKS speedloaders and I carry them in one of my cargo pockets.

Just throwing out an option for you, as the other's have as well. :tiphat:

Once it cools off I'll probably start packing the Kimber again, but for simplicity you just can't beat a revolver! Remember, there are *many* options, so keep an open mind. BTW - there's nothing wrong with your Sig.
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Yankee Girl
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Re: Semi- or Revolver?

Post by Yankee Girl »

USA1 wrote:IMO, the most all around practical self defense gun is the 5 shot lightweight snubnose revolver.
They are easy to load, easy to clean, easy to maintain, and easy to put into action under the most stressful circumstances.
You sound like the twin or clone to a buddy of mine out in Phoenix, those were almost exactly his words. ;-)
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Re: Semi- or Revolver?

Post by MojoTexas »

Just to weigh in with my opinion...there are pros and cons to each type of handgun. I own both types, and love 'em all.

The big advantage to a revolver, in my opinion, is that it's dirt-simple to operate. With a modern double-action revolver, if you're in a hurry you just point it and pull the trigger. There's no safety to worry about, no magazine to eject, and very little that can prevent it from going BANG! If you have time to be leisurely about it, you can manually cock the hammer (if it has an external hammer) and fire single-action with a shorter and crisper trigger-pull. A revolver has less moving parts than a semi-automatic, and is inherently less "complicated". That means if you're tossing it under the seat of your car or taking it camping, it's less susceptible to something breaking under rough use compared to some semi-automatics, and they're easier to clean.

That being said, the big advantage to a semi-automatic is higher capacity. A 1911 chambered in .45 ACP will hold at least 7 rounds, and most semi-autos hold much more. For a revolver, 7 rounds is a lot. Most hold only 5 or 6. Another advantage to a semi-automatic is that with practice, they're typically faster and easier to reload. It's relatively simple to eject a spent magazine and slam a fresh one home. With a revolver, it takes a significant amount of practice to achieve the same proficiency even if you're using speed loaders. Also, field stripping a semi-automatic is a little more involved than what you need to do to clean a revolver.

I typically carry either a semi-automatic 1911-style Kimber Eclipse Pro II, or a S&W 442 J-Frame revolver. The Kimber holds 8 rounds of .45 ACP, and the J-Frame holds 5 rounds of .38 Special. There's no question that the Kimber has greater stopping power than the J-Frame, but it's tougher to conceal. I can conceal the J-Frame with just about anything I'm wearing, while the commander-sized 1911 more effort and consideration to my wardrobe. If I'm hanging around the house in shorts or sweats, I'm probably carrying the J-Frame. Even though the 1911 has more stopping power, the J-Frame probably has ENOUGH stopping power for me to fight my way back to one of my other weapons if necessary, and it's much easier to conceal.

In the long run, it's really a matter of personal preference...some lady shooters like and do-well with semi-autos, and some lady shooters like the revolvers for the simplicity and ease of shooting. My mother (who is retired and a CHL holder) likes the snub-nosed 38 because at her age she has difficulty working the slide.
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Texas Dan Mosby
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Re: Semi- or Revolver?

Post by Texas Dan Mosby »

So my question to those with experience of both types of handguns is - is that risk of an out-of-battery jam significant enough to avoid semi-'s?
No. Absolutely not.

Most of the potential issues related to stoppages occurring in semi's can be attributed to the user.

Poor / no maintenance procedures.
Failure to select and use the proper magazines.
Failure to select and use appropriate ammo.
Poor fundamentals resulting in stoppages due to "limp wristing".

IMO, the only SIGNIFICANT advantage a revolver has is simplicity in operation.
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Re: Semi- or Revolver?

Post by couzin »

PUCKER wrote:...a few weeks ago, the clouds parted, the sun shined down upon me and I saw the light. By that I mean this - I finally purchased a lightweight J-Frame S&W revolver.
Hallelujah!!! Another convert!!! Praise be...

(Sorry Carl... something just came over me - I'll double my offering on Sunday) :angel:
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Re: Semi- or Revolver?

Post by Excaliber »

MojoTexas wrote:Just to weigh in with my opinion...there are pros and cons to each type of handgun. I own both types, and love 'em all.

The big advantage to a revolver, in my opinion, is that it's dirt-simple to operate. With a modern double-action revolver, if you're in a hurry you just point it and pull the trigger. There's no safety to worry about, no magazine to eject, and very little that can prevent it from going BANG! If you have time to be leisurely about it, you can manually cock the hammer (if it has an external hammer) and fire single-action with a shorter and crisper trigger-pull. A revolver has less moving parts than a semi-automatic, and is inherently less "complicated". That means if you're tossing it under the seat of your car or taking it camping, it's less susceptible to something breaking under rough use compared to some semi-automatics, and they're easier to clean.

That being said, the big advantage to a semi-automatic is higher capacity. A 1911 chambered in .45 ACP will hold at least 7 rounds, and most semi-autos hold much more. For a revolver, 7 rounds is a lot. Most hold only 5 or 6. Another advantage to a semi-automatic is that with practice, they're typically faster and easier to reload. It's relatively simple to eject a spent magazine and slam a fresh one home. With a revolver, it takes a significant amount of practice to achieve the same proficiency even if you're using speed loaders. Also, field stripping a semi-automatic is a little more involved than what you need to do to clean a revolver.

I typically carry either a semi-automatic 1911-style Kimber Eclipse Pro II, or a S&W 442 J-Frame revolver. The Kimber holds 8 rounds of .45 ACP, and the J-Frame holds 5 rounds of .38 Special. There's no question that the Kimber has greater stopping power than the J-Frame, but it's tougher to conceal. I can conceal the J-Frame with just about anything I'm wearing, while the commander-sized 1911 more effort and consideration to my wardrobe. If I'm hanging around the house in shorts or sweats, I'm probably carrying the J-Frame. Even though the 1911 has more stopping power, the J-Frame probably has ENOUGH stopping power for me to fight my way back to one of my other weapons if necessary, and it's much easier to conceal.

In the long run, it's really a matter of personal preference...some lady shooters like and do-well with semi-autos, and some lady shooters like the revolvers for the simplicity and ease of shooting. My mother (who is retired and a CHL holder) likes the snub-nosed 38 because at her age she has difficulty working the slide.
MoJo, I agree with most of your post, except for the highlighted area.

The vaunted ruggedness of the revolver vs. a military grade semiauto like a Glock or Springfield XD is actually an old myth that was frequently called on to forestall the inevitable move from revolvers to semiautos in police agencies. Revolvers have lots of things that can and do go wrong, as those of us who have seen a lot of LEO training before semiautos took over can attest.

Dropping a revolver one time on a hard surface has an excellent chance of rearranging the very delicate relationships between the crane, the cylinder, and the barrel. Disruptions in these areas can cause the gun to shave and spit lead sideways when fired because the chambers don't line up exactly with the barrel, or, in severe cases, can cause the cylinder not to turn at all. These are gunsmith fix items.

If you don't watch the screw that secures the crane to the frame, you may open the cylinder for a reload only to watch your cylinder and crane assembly fall out of the gun and onto the ground. Heavy bullets in ultralight revolvers can work the projectiles of loaded rounds out of the cartridge cases as the first couple of rounds are fired, preventing the cylinder from rotating and totally tying up the gun. Revolvers are also very susceptible to sand or mud which gets into the fairly delicate internal moving parts pretty easily and brings all those precisely mated moving parts to a grinding halt. That's why you don't see revolvers in the holsters of the world's premier military forces.

They're also not quick or easy to clean. Six chambers and one barrel take lots longer to clean properly than a single chamber / barrel unit, even when the semiauto's slide and frame cleaning is taken into account. I clean a semiauto in about 20 minutes. To get my revolvers to meet my standards takes 45 minutes to an hour. I may be pickier than most, but I'm that way with the semiautos too.

Semiautos do have a more complicated manual of arms, and require more hand strength, manual dexterity, shooter knowledge and training to operate successfully and reliably. Many officers who were not "gun guys" struggled mightily during the transition to semiautos. However, the better examples are far more rugged than revolvers. I don't know of any revolver that could be dropped from a helicopter a few hundred feet up, or buried it in mud, sand, or ice, dug out, and would then fire a full cartridge load successfully like you can do with a Glock. I'd have to do some detailed counts to determine if a Glock or an S&W Model 642 has more parts that move during the firing cycle, but I see that as a neither here nor there item.

The bottom line, as you pointed out, is that each gun type has its pluses and minuses. Neither is perfect. One needs to make informed choices based on his or her own needs and a solid knowledge of the actual characteristics to determine what fits best for any given situation.
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Re: Semi- or Revolver?

Post by ELB »

I went from revolvers to semi-autos for my usual self-defense gun. After pondering it for some time, I came to the conclusion that a semi-auto is overall superior to a revolver as a defense piece. In the same size as a revolver, you can pack more ammo, and I think that is vastly more important than the caliber in putting the "stop" in shoot to stop. (I would not go below .38/9mm, but I don't see any true need to go above those calibers either). Modern semi autos by reputable manufacturers are reliable, easier to conceal, easier to shoot accurately, and as noted, hold more ammo in the same size package.

You've already found that revolvers present somewhat of a challenge in concealment, because they bulge in the middle. The flatness of a semi, especially certain models, makes them easier to conceal. This is especially true for IWB, which I think is hands-down the most usable/accessible/concealeable mode of carry.

As for simplicity of operation -- the Glock or the Kahr is every bit as simple to operate as a revolver. Aim and pull the trigger. I suppose it takes slightly more effort to load the magazine initially, but you do that at your leisure, just like loading your revolver the first time. When reloading under pressure, however, the magazine-fed semi-auto wins hands down. Revolver afficionados (and I am one) point out that if you get a dud round in a revolver, you simply pull the trigger again, you get a new round, and bang! With a semi-auto, you have to do the tap-rack-bang drill. This is true. But if you start with a reliable handgun and buy good quality self-defense ammo, you are very unlikely to face this scenario with either type of gun. It is not impossible, but it is not a big enough issue to say this makes revolvers superior overall.

Some people do have a problem racking the slide on some semi-autos, because of the strength of the recoil spring. My wife is one of these. The smaller the semi-auto, the bigger issue this is because they have to use proportionally stronger springs to make up for the loss in the weight of the slide. However, once you get it loaded and in your holster, it is still IMO superior to a revolver. You may not be able to rack the slide for a reload, but under pressure, by which I mean if you are in a gunfight, reloading a revolver is not easy either -- and with the semi-auto you will get to the reload point later. Put it this way -- for any situation in which you think the five-shot or six or seven or eight shot revolver is adequate, so is a semi-auto with its attendent benefits.

I like five shot snubbies, and have several for a second (backup) gun. My wife carries one, with a couple speed strips. But in my appraisal they are not adequate for carry as a general/primary defense. They are excellent for last-ditch efforts against a single attacker at close range. And perhaps the majority of citizen self-defense actions resemble this scenario. But a semi-auto and an extra magazine or two costs me no more effort than carrying the snubby and speed strips or speed loaders, and I am better prepared to deal with one or more opponents, at various ranges.

I have carried a semi-auto Browning Hi Power (15 rounds) for several years, in a inside-the-waistband kydex holster. It really no bigger than my Model 19 revolver with six rounds (and FAR easier to conceal IWB). I carry it ALL the time, in whatever clothes I need to wear. Suits, casual, work clothes, T-shirt and shorts, whathave you., I have never had to compromise on which gun I wanted to carry because of clothing. A snubby fits in my pants pocket just fine, but it is always "extra."

Some women have told me that positioning the holster at the appendix position, inside the waist band, with the holster adjusted so the angle follows in the inguinal crease, makes any handgun much more comfortable to carry. And faster to draw, as well. I know of some men who do it this way as well because it makes the draw much easier and faster.

Whichever gun you choose, shoot it enough, "at speed," to be sure it will work when you need it too. This is just as true for revolvers as semi-autos. I think it is harder to manufacture a semi-auto that is reliable out the box than it is a revolver, but when you have one, with decent care it will continue to be reliable. As Excalibur noted, it is not all that hard to introduce problems in a revolver.

By "at speed," I mean shooting it like you would to save your life. FAST (and accurate). With less than perfect grip, "limp-wristed," at odd angles. Unfortunately, many ranges, especially indoor ones, have rules limiting you to one shot per second or slower or some such. This is not fast enough to show up all the possible problems with your new gun. See if you can find one where you can really exercise your gun and yourself.

I once had a snubby that shot just fine at normal range slow fire. But when I cranked off five has fast as I could, I found it would not advance to the next round properly -- it would either fail to turn the cylinder, or spin it wildly. Either way, the gun would simply lock up. This would only show up a rapid fire. I got it fixed, and carried it for quite awhile.

Same-same semiautos -- when you crank off several rounds rapidly, you may find feeding problems that don't show up otherwise.

Now when you go try out a bunch of guns (and I hope you can and do) you may decide in the end a revolver is better for you. Then buy the best one you can afford and lots of ammo to go with it, and practice as much as you can. Maybe buy two of them, one for each pocket. This is known as a "New York reload." :mrgreen:

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Re: Semi- or Revolver?

Post by The Annoyed Man »

I carry both (but not simultaneously) either a .357 snubnose revolver, or a .45 ACP semi-auto. Lately, with the heat, pocket carrying the snubbie has been my habit. But more typically, my primary carry weapon is a semi-auto. I'll echo pretty much what everyone else here has said, and smear a nice thick icing over it all of "carry what you are comfortable with, because the gun you carry is better than the one you left at home." Caveat: Don't carry any caliber less potent than .38 Special +P.
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Re: Semi- or Revolver?

Post by SecedeTX »

I carry my wife's .38 SW ultralight in my front pocket sometimes, but the majority of the time I carry a really small 9mm auto. (It's all stainless, so it is a bit heavy for most pant pockets).

My 9mm is smaller, more concealable, and packs more stopping power....tradeoff is the weight.

My biggest thing is, if I want to carry extra ammo. The speed loader for the revolver takes up extra space and is more bulky. The single stack 9mm auto magazine is slim and really easy to conceal.

Now, if I could just get my wife to carry her .38 everywhere she goes.....that would be an accomplishment.
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Re: Semi- or Revolver?

Post by OldCannon »

You might want to consider a S&W Ladysmith in .38 SPL. Depending on your preference, you would want a shrouded or "unshrouded" hammer. Unshrouded hammer advantages are that you can manipulate the hammer so that you don't have to engage in double-action pull (which can be rough). Shrouded hammer advantage is that you don't have to worry about the hammer catching on clothing, etc.

I have a nice, nickel Ladysmith Model 36 (Chief's Special) that's sitting in my safe. I have half a mind to sell it, but I think it breaks down in tears every time I think about doing that :???: They're just so hard to come by these days. (I was going to put a link to the S&W website for it, but their website is so mind-bogglingly horrid and slow. Heck, I can't even tell if S&W makes them anymore).
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