sig sucks (p238 story)

[Salty1]

"I wouldn't buy anything that Sig has made in the US. Their firearms have gone to crap."

Personally I feel that is a pretty bold statement without any merit at all, please provide us with some of your personal experiences so we can all learn from your knowledge, I may have to get rid of my very reliable and accurate Sig's and go buy Glocks (will never happen).

I personally own many newer Sigs (239, 2022, 250c, 250sc, 226, 238, mosquito, 522, 556) and have had no issues with them, and I shoot them, not keep them in a safe. My P250c has well over 14k rounds through it, I maintain it and am waiting to see what the first part to fail will be and when. Our company also sells lots of them and the only ones that went back to Sig was the initial run of 238's that required a modification. Every manufacturere has had ocassional problems with their firearms and they repair them. Firearms are mechanical devices that are machined and items can and do break or the tollerances are off. I am not going to defend Sig's customer service, one unhappy customer is 1 too many in my opinion, if you spend any time on the various gun forums you will read very similar complaints from almost every manufacturer.

[tetralaw]

Well said salty. How are you liking your P250c? I haven't seen one but I was interested in them. 14k sounds pretty worthy

[cajunautoxer]

"I wouldn't buy anything that Sig has made in the US. Their firearms have gone to crap."

Personally I feel that is a pretty bold statement without any merit at all, please provide us with some of your personal experiences so we can all learn from your knowledge, I may have to get rid of my very reliable and accuut date Sig's and go buy Glocks (will never happen).

I personally own many newer Sigs (239, 2022, 250c, 250sc, 226, 238, mosquito, 522, 556) and have had no issues with them, and I shoot them, not keep them in a safe. My P250c has well over 14k rounds through it, I maintain it and am waiting to see what the first part to fail will be and when. Our company also sells lots of them and the only ones that went back to Sig was the initial run of 238's that required a modification. Every manufacturere has had ocassional problems with their firearms and they repair them. Firearms are mechanical devices that are machined and items can and do break or the tollerances are off. I am not going to defend Sig's customer service, one unhappy customer is 1 too many in my opinion, if you spend any time on the various gun forums you will read very similar complaints from almost every manufacturer.

I'm glad your >10 Sig firearms have been a problem free. But do you really think the firearms you have is enough of a sample size to say Sig's quality control hasn't gone down the drain the past couple decade?

Like I said I only have two Sigs so that's not big enough of a picture to defend my belief but here are some facts that I've learned over the yrs
The La State Police bought close to 1k Sigs in 1996. All the Sigs made in the US had to go back for parts failure. Thats 100% return there. IMO that's not a good percentage.
In 2007 the East Baton Rouge Parish Sheriff Department had to also send ALL their 226Rs they received. Once again 100% return and IMO not a good thing.
Then there are threads like the one below that pop up
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php ... 18&t=53045" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And now lets say there were two idential ads for a Sig (220,226, or 229) and one was made in the US and the other Germany which one would sell first? There is a reason why people look for Sigs made in Germany. And why in ads sellers state that their gun was made over seas.

[G.A. Heath]

I have seen, shot, inspected, and done unusual things to a number of different guns including Sigs. I haven't owned one until recently, but when you talk about a 100% return rate you also need to keep in mind that those guns were probably from the same lot meaning that any defect found in one could easily be found in any of the others. As someone who knows that reliability is the number one factor for any carry/duty gun if I had more than one gun fail, for the same reason, from the same lot I would send them all back for inspection, service, and repair even if my own smiths/armorer(s) said they were ok. Now I am not a LEO or professional who depends on their firearm however when anyone starts talking about all they see are "reports of failures" I automatically consider how many people with the same gun had no problem to gripe about so they don't talk about it. Sig products have had issues lately, so have some guns in my area that were made by Glock, Colt, Springfield, Smith, ect. but all of these manufacturers will make it right.

On the other hand I do have to wonder about Sig's management due to that whole "reliability" thing that the FBI placed too much value on. If you make a gun for someone to carry so they can defend themselves reliability had better be the #1 issue.

[ironsights]

update- decided not to fire my sig. Traded it today for a Kahr p380. sigs price went down im sure due to quality so i had to pay an extra 30 bucks..not to bad . i called Kahr before i made the decision, just to find out how they treat people. they were very friendly and honest, they said tht they did have a few problems with the p380 but not many. Im excited to go shoot this little thing. i will upate again when i do.

[alvins]

my cousin has a sig p238 he has nothing but trouble. the slide pin falls out when it cycles wont cycle bullets or eject them.all sorts of bull.

[tetralaw]

my cousin has a sig p238 he has nothing but trouble. the slide pin falls out when it cycles wont cycle bullets or eject them.all sorts of bull.

does he want to sell it for a real good price? lol

[G.A. Heath]

I'm gonna put my money where my mouth is, I ordered a Sig P238 Blackwood today. The gun will work just fine, or Sig will make it good, or I will make it my mission to let everybody know how bad of a product and customer service they have.

[Sidro]

I have the Blackwood P238 and wife has the Titanium P238. Probably 500 rounds thru each in a mix of jhp and fmj, both in the mag at the same time. No ftf or fte from either one and no parts failures, guess we got lucky.

[glbedd53]

It disturbes me to hear all this. My Sigs are my favorite and most reliable handguns. But I can learn from other peoples experiences. Either the quality better go back up or the prices better come down or they won't be around long.

[cajunautoxer]

I have seen, shot, inspected, and done unusual things to a number of different guns including Sigs. I haven't owned one until recently, but when you talk about a 100% return rate you also need to keep in mind that those guns were probably from the same lot meaning that any defect found in one could easily be found in any of the others. As someone who knows that reliability is the number one factor for any carry/duty gun if I had more than one gun fail, for the same reason, from the same lot I would send them all back for inspection, service, and repair even if my own smiths/armorer(s) said they were ok. Now I am not a LEO or professional who depends on their firearm however when anyone starts talking about all they see are "reports of failures" I automatically consider how many people with the same gun had no problem to gripe about so they don't talk about it. Sig products have had issues lately, so have some guns in my area that were made by Glock, Colt, Springfield, Smith, ect. but all of these manufacturers will make it right.

On the other hand I do have to wonder about Sig's management due to that whole "reliability" thing that the FBI placed too much value on. If you make a gun for someone to carry so they can defend themselves reliability had better be the #1 issue.

I understand that part failures happen and to not expect problems would be crazy. With the LSP it was issues with the spring and the SO the frame's were miscut. I think the main concern is that Sig decided in the early 90's to use differnet companies to manufacture certain parts for their firearms. Now other companies do this and they don't have the issues Sig has (STI?) But for Sig it is an issue that they have turned their back on it.

I'm not saying all Sigs made in the US are crap but it's a toss up and for the price you pay it shouldn't be. I'm not some great firearm's guy that's shot millions of rounds. But I do listen when people like Paul Gomez talk about the issues people have with their firearms during his classes, and what brands he see's that fall short.

[G.A. Heath]

almost no manufacturer makes their own springs, and I know of at least one instance where a police armorer replaced every striker spring in their Glocks due to light primer strikes. I will not go around saying that this is a sign of Glocks quality going down the tubes. As for the frames being miscut, that happens when tools are worn, improperly setup, or something even more common happens like a power surge causing a cnc machine to go loopy.

I can also say that an instructor often sees firearms that are poorly or improperly maintained, cleaned, and are not often serviced as they should be. The more expensive the firearm the less maintenance people seem to think they need, which is often the exact opposite of reality. I know of one person who bought a Les Baer, put 6000 rounds of ammo though it and hated the gun because it was unreliable (at least 2 Failures every magazine). While we were there at the range I detail stripped it, put new springs in, gave it a good cleaning, and then returned it to him. He shot over 500 rounds with out a failure before I showed him how to field strip, clean, lube, and reassemble it properly. Since then he hasn't had any failures that were not magazine or operator induced, and I talked to him about the gun yesterday. And yes often I carry a tool kit and extra springs to the range.

And as I said above, I'm gonna put my money where my mouth is, I have ordered a brand new Sig P238 Blackwood just to see how bad things are with them.

[chamberc]

My experience with a P238 will be the only Sig I ever purchase (and one of the few I've sold). Not a single firearm I own was less reliable including both of my LCP's (which really get a bad rep, but I've never had any issues) or my crappy Remington 1187 with a blown o-ring.

[ironsights]

I wish you luck sir! I can say that i am an experianced shooter and unfourtanatly i wasted several hundred dollars in ammo, range fees and gas. The time wasted on the phone, being treated unfairly and having the satisfaction to know that Sigs gunsmiths dont know there d's from b's on numerous occasions was enough to make any man angry. I dont think it's worth a man's sanity to do this test unless it's your job, and i would love that job by the way! but if it's not your job and you are like me, one gun purchase a year, youll avoid the headache. if you do get lucky well then im sure you will admire this little hunk of crud being that when it did fire it was quite nice! its not such a point and click type pocket pistol though, they put nice sights on it for a reason, you have to use them Kahr gives you two mags! and feels like more of a point and click type pocket weAPON

[G.A. Heath]

Being single I can afford to purchase and test a weapon if I find it interesting. I find the P238 to be an interesting gun because I like the Colt Mustang. My profession has nothing to do with guns but I know a lot of people who's job does involve firearms in one way or another so I have access to a number of different sources for information, training, equipment, ect. I got first rifle in the early 80's and have been shooting since then. I enjoy anything mechanical, and guns are one of the most interesting things in the world to me so I like to buy them, build them, shoot them, ect. Trust me, if the gun is no good and Sig's customer service doesn't hold up then I will make sure that everyone I can knows about it. Just like I will make sure everyone knows if the gun works or it has to go back with good customer service. I am known locally for getting to the bottom of an issue, I have a reputation of running down big wigs in corporations and getting answers/satisfaction. So remember that this gun will work properly before I am finished, regardless of Sig's customer service.

BTW, I am aware of and unhappy with their view of reliability in their protest letter regarding their elimination from the FBI testing polymer frame firearms.