Killed by dog (what can we learn?)

[jbirds1210]

I have no training in these situations. I know that it has been discussed in the past, but what is the best practice for a dog such as this attacking. The obvious shot before you are bitten is ideal, but these puppies are FAST and are often upon you before there is time to react. Is the weak arm an ideal treat for the puppy until a gun can be reached? I have seen someone die from a bite to the arm, but it seems that it would be the least dangerous. I would love to hear what you folks have planned to do if this happens.



http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hea ... 95311.html


Oct. 29, 2006, 1:47PM
Man attacked, killed by pit bull at Willis-area home


Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle

Authorities are investigating death of a man who was attacked and killed by a pit bull dog over the weekend in north Montgomery County.

The Conroe-area man, whose name was not released, was bitten in throat Saturday while visiting a home in the 10600 block of FM 1097, just west of Willis around 4 p.m.

The victim, who was in his 40s, died at the scene, officials said.

Authorities said the dog was running around the yard when they arrived. A Taser was used to calm the dog. Animal control officers removed the dog and took custody, officials said.

Authorities said they did not know who owned the dog but did not believe it belonged to the victim

[HighVelocity]

The first thing that comes to mind is to protect your thoat. Since there weren't any witnesses that we know of at this point, it's impossible to comment on this incident.

As far as what to do, I say just be prepared. Awareness of the potential danger is definitely an advantage and if such an attack ocurrs, a big sack (God willing) , instead of a taser will be all that's needed to remove the critter from the scene. An unkown dog, off leash is a threat, period.

[longtooth]

Flint had the best report on this that I have ever read a few months ago. It was short. I would like to read a full one.

Nothing like getting nominated when you are not there.

[GlockenHammer]

A dog is not much different from the two-legged animals we prepare to defend ourselves against.

I was attacked by a dog when I was a child. While I lost that fight, I somehow figured out after the fact that I can fight back. As a child, I was the perfect victim--I tried to get away and got mauled until the dog got bored with his prey. Becoming violent with that dog never crossed my mind then. Now, I am predisposed to meet violent dogs with violence. Now I have even better tools with which to fight. (Actually, it reminds me of the police officer's motto: "Be courteous, but have a plan to kill every one you meet.") I love dogs and enjoy them. But if one is attacking me without provocation, I will not be a victim again.

I'll skip the awareness and avoidance lecture you should all know by heart and get right to the fight.

Yes, protect your vital areas from attack. I prefer a well placed shot as the charge is coming. After that, a well-timed roundhouse or front kick as the dog lunges for an attack, but that isn't always possible. Delaying violence is natural for us good guys, but it can get you killed or hurt. I have no problem drawing down on an unrestrained dog coming my way with aggression. Depending on size, ferociousness and proximity, I would shoot (based on fear of bodily harm).

If you delay this violence, then you may have to sacrifice the forearm (or lower leg) to get your weapons to bare much like you might sacrifice a knife cut in a less vulnerable area to protect the vitals. Draw your gun and shoot. Draw your knife and stab. Use your free arm/leg as impact weapons (think about breaking the ribs). Use your free hand on their throat and squeeze like your life depends on it...it may. Drive your fingers into their eye sockets.

Fighting is not as sexy as our range sessions and action heroes lead us to believe. The real ones are dirty and gross. It's easy to forget that sitting at this keyboard so long...

After the dog is out of the fight, you need to consider your own wounds. A dog's teeth, like a knife, can open a significant wound channel and cause significant blood loss. I would call for help regardless of my condition, but realize that you may need to go into self-preservation mode if you are bleeding from a major artery. Stop the major bleeding until you can get help, and get that help quickly. If the wounds are only superficial, so much the better, but I would rather be on the safe side.

[cyphur]

Kicking a dog in the face, or punching it, works well.

I had a full sized german shepard rush me once while I was in high school. It was my at-that-time GF's house, oddly enough and her dog(should have seen it as an omen...). The dog rushed from about 6 feet out and clamped onto my leg. I was swinging before it clamped down and hit it in the base of the skull with enough force that it fell, rolled over backside, and came up yelping. The dog never approached me again.

It was a good lesson for me that violence against animals is not the taboo that many think it is, and is often necessary. It went a long way to change my mind and set the base for my current mindset towards dogs. I am now cautious around dogs I do not know, and still mindful around ones I do.

[dihappy]

Great thread!

I was only chased once while a kid and have never been actually attacked by a dog.

I have however thought over what i would do if i had to defend myself from a large dog.

I good kick or punch should get the job done, better yet if you have a large stick or piece of wood.

If all else fails, draw down and end it for good.

[kw5kw]

The only thing about drawing on a dog: They don't have any idea of what it means. They will just keep comming as the gun means nothing to them.

Draw to fire immediately for the dog knows no different, they won't stop like a man will at the sight of a 9mm, a .38 or even a .45.

Russ

[jbirds1210]

Thank you guys for the response. GlockenHammer offers some wonderful advice....I am going to print it out and read it again when I have more time! Thank you for sharing your experience...it is very valuable

Jason

[Paladin]

I put my hand on my OC spray if I think a dog might attack me. I'll palm the spray in my weak hand if an attack looks probable. And spray if an attack looks imminent.

That leaves my strong hand free to draw and fire if the spray doesn't work.

Usually I'm with my dog, which can keep the attacking dog busy/distracted while I draw.


Update:

I forgot to mention that most dogs will listen to basic verbal commands like "NO", "SIT", "DOWN", or "GO HOME"

Verbal commands alone have worked more than once for me in the past.

[GlockenHammer]

The only thing about drawing on a dog: They don't have any idea of what it means. They will just keep comming as the gun means nothing to them.

Draw to fire immediately for the dog knows no different, they won't stop like a man will at the sight of a 9mm, a .38 or even a .45.

Russ

I agree. What I meant was to not delay getting the gun out and into play. Its purpose is not to deter the threat, but to put you into a position to end it.

The only reason I did not say draw and fire immediately is that once the weapon is out and ready, I can use any remaining time to assess before pulling the trigger. Sometimes, a vicious approach stops short of an attack and I don't want to shoot/kill if it isn't required to ensure safety.

GH

[TxFire]

This is a good discusion. If a dog appears as though it is indeed actually charging/attacking force is indeed needed immediately. But as stated above VERY FIRM verbal commands of "NO"or "STOP" may work for the aggressive dog that is not actually attacking. I run in the county area and my Female German Shepherd is usually with me. We have met many agressive and mostly annoying dogs and the commands usually work well. She never breaks stride unless she is really irritated.

[KBCraig]

When I was in college and home on the weekends, the dog across the street would follow me on my runs. He was a big guy of unknown heritage, but a solid 120+ pounds.

He never broke stride, either, but he would certainly crowd up against me when we were going past one certain house. That's because their pet was chained in the yard -- their "pet" being a grown male African lion chained to a tree, roughly 20 yards from the road (and not even a fence).

For some reason, I suspect they were not registered with USDA for exotic animals.

Kevin

[TxFire]

Wow, And I thought the day the three junkyard Rotweilers (Sp?) got out was touchy! You got me there. My two German Shepherds are big teddy bears unless you mess with their family.

[KBCraig]

Here's a police video with an attacking rottweiler, a Taser, and the results of backing off too soon.

http://s64.photobucket.com/albums/h184/ ... azered.flv

[HighVelocity]

Here's a police video with an attacking rottweiler, a Taser, and the results of backing off too soon.

http://s64.photobucket.com/albums/h184/ ... azered.flv

I've seen that video before, that dog was fast but the officer had some nice dance moves. Meeting the dogs muzzle with his knee looked like it worked pretty well.
I applaud the officers restraint as he had the opportunity to kill the dog before he ran between him and his partner that then used the tazer.

Last year my son and I were charged in our driveway by a stray pit. It was about 50lbs or so. I was armed but the dog ran between me and the boy. I was able to grab the dog by it's collar, and hoist it over my head and spike it like a football onto the driveway. The dog wasn't even stunned. Anyway, I did gain control of the dog before anyone was hurt and it turned out that it was just a big dumb pup that wanted to make friends.
A few moments later a couple of guys that I'd never seen before are walking down the street calling, here puppy, here puppy.
The police and animal control were called.

At dinner, my son asked me why I didn't shoot the dog. The dog was not snarling or bearing it's teeth, it was running towards us but may not have even seen us (we were standing at the back of my truck which was backed in). Besides, it ran between us and had I taken a shot and missed, I might have hit you or one of the other kids that were outdoors playing.
He said, but dad, you don't miss.

Kids, gotta love'm. It'll be a sad day when the Dad=Superman thing wears off.