Can he obtain a CHL? ****CORRECTED/UPDATED****

[dpatterson]

Back in Feb of 04 my father took the CHL Class, submitted his forms, and was denied.

In 1973, while young and dumb as he says, he commited a Theft over $250, which was classifed as a Felony. This "Theft" did not involve a weapon of any kind and was not against a person. All of this happened in Kansas so obtaining these records before had were pretty much impossible. He went ahead and took the class making sure to put down as much information that he could as far as the arrest info went. Nevertheless, he successfully completed the 2 yrs probation that was handed down.

Fast forward to the present. Now with HB1831 would he be able to obtain a CHL? And is the only option for him to have received adjudicated probation for this to apply to him. Also, if it matters he was 17 at the time of the theft and 18 when convicted.

***CORRECTION/UPDATE***
Got alittle more info from Dad. To correct my original statement. The offense was actually in Upshur County Texas.... The total amount listed i n the charge was $750.


TIA

Daniel

[DustinB]

If I remember right, any felony must be expunged before you can get a CHL.

[Charles L. Cotton]

To be disqualifying, the offense must be a felony at the time he applies for a CHL. (See below.) This should depend upon the value of the stolen property in 1973. The lowest felony theft is a state jail felony and this requires a value of $1,500 or more, but less than $20,000.

Chas.


TPC §411.172

(b) For the purposes of this section, an offense under the laws of this state, another state, or the United States is:

(1) a felony if the offense, at the time of a person's application for a license to carry a concealed handgun:

(A) is designated by a law of this state as a felony;

(B) contains all the elements of an offense designated by a law of this state as a felony; or

(C) is punishable by confinement for one year or more in a penitentiary; and

[dpatterson]

Thanks for the replys....

He is going next week to talk to a Lawyer. Hopefully they can get him an answer that he can live with....

I think the biggest problem is it was commited in a small Kansas county and appairently they only have paper copies of records...

[Charles L. Cotton]

Thanks for the replys....

He is going next week to talk to a Lawyer. Hopefully they can get him an answer that he can live with....

I think the biggest problem is it was commited in a small Kansas county and appairently they only have paper copies of records...

I'm not discouraging him from talking to an attorney by any means , but he needs to make sure it's someone who knows the CHL statute. Many/most people simply believe any felony is a permanent disqualification and are not aware that 1) a deferred adjudication over 10 years old for most felonies and 2) old felonies that are now misdemeanors are not disqualifying.

The threshold question is what was the value of the property in 1973? I have to check with DPS on another matter for someone, so if you'll call me Monday and remind me, I'll ask about this situation as well. Let me know if you want me to and I'll PM my office number.

Chas.

[seamusTX]

The lowest felony theft is a state jail felony and this requires a value of $1,500 or more, ...

There are some more obscure provisions:

§ 31.03. THEFT: ... (A) the value of the property stolen is $1,500 or
more ..., or the property is less than 10 head of
cattle, horses, or exotic livestock or exotic fowl as defined by
Section 142.001, Agriculture Code, ...
(B) regardless of value, the property is stolen
from the person of another or from a human corpse or grave;
(C) the property stolen is a firearm, ...

So picking pockets or stealing an emu chick is a felony.

(I became aware of this because of a discussion of horse theft.)

- Jim

[dpatterson]

Thanks for the replys....

He is going next week to talk to a Lawyer. Hopefully they can get him an answer that he can live with....

I think the biggest problem is it was commited in a small Kansas county and appairently they only have paper copies of records...

I'm not discouraging him from talking to an attorney by any means , but he needs to make sure it's someone who knows the CHL statute. Many/most people simply believe any felony is a permanent disqualification and are not aware that 1) a deferred adjudication over 10 years old for most felonies and 2) old felonies that are now misdemeanors are not disqualifying.

The threshold question is what was the value of the property in 1973? I have to check with DPS on another matter for someone, so if you'll call me Monday and remind me, I'll ask about this situation as well. Let me know if you want me to and I'll PM my office number.

Chas.

I would appreciate any info we could get, please send me your Office number. I will also find out which lawyer Dad is talking to.

DP

[KBCraig]

My non-lawyerly input:

Even though the threshold amount has changed over the years, the charge itself remains the same, right?

To clarify: someone convicted of speeding 15 years ago for driving 58mph, still has a speeding conviction, no matter what the speed was, and no matter that the speed limit is currently 70-80.

Kevin

[Charles L. Cotton]

My non-lawyerly input:

Even though the threshold amount has changed over the years, the charge itself remains the same, right?

To clarify: someone convicted of speeding 15 years ago for driving 58mph, still has a speeding conviction, no matter what the speed was, and no matter that the speed limit is currently 70-80.

Kevin

The charge remains the same, but since there is a misdemeanor level theft, the amount at issue should be controlling. It's just like marijuana possession in the 60's was a felony, regardless of the amount. Those old felonies no longer bar someone, if the amount in possession is lower than the current felony limit. At least, I've been told that is the way DPS is approaching it. I have to admit the statute is not clear on how to handle felony v. misdemeanor levels of a given offense.

Chas.

[KBCraig]

The charge remains the same, but since there is a misdemeanor level theft, the amount at issue should be controlling. It's just like marijuana possession in the 60's was a felony, regardless of the amount. Those old felonies no longer bar someone, if the amount in possession is lower than the current felony limit. At least, I've been told that is the way DPS is approaching it. I have to admit the statute is not clear on how to handle felony v. misdemeanor levels of a given offense.

That's interesting. I think it's great that someone convicted of a felony, which is no longer a felony, would not suffer the same restrictions.

Thing is, though... the feds and ATF consider it "once a felon, always a felon" (barring a pardon, of course).

I'm reminded of the Thomas Lamar Bean case. He eventually received a pardon from the governor, but I don't believe ATF will accept that, and they're barred by law from processing requests for restoration of gun rights. Carrying ammunition into Mexico is no longer a felony, but is now a misdemeanor. So, you're saying that he's no longer considered a felon by DPS (even without the pardon)?

Interesting, because I'm pretty sure ATF still considers him to be a felon.

Kevin