Does a gun grab constitute use of lethal force?

[txinvestigator]

I hope this does not hijack this thread....but does anyone teach retention skills locally (Houston). Any recommended books/videos on this?

Suarez's "Tactical Advantage" discusses the topic.

If the BG's are within reach you should keep your gun at the "close contact" or "retention" position

And don't stick your gun around a corner. Give yourself some distance from corners. I see people mess this up all the time in training.

As I conceal carry, I don't worry about retention straps. If the BG's don't know your gun is there, they won't even think about making a grab for it.

The point of this thread is someone grabbing your gun while holstered. If you think that there is no way a person would know you are carrying you are fooling yourself. There are many ways a person could observe your gun, not to mention if you get into a scuffle with someone and they FEEL it, all they have to do is pull. If you have no retention, they get your gun quite easily.

There are also non-confrontational ways you could lose your gun with a non-retention holster, but don't listen to me; I'm just a stupid ex-cop.

[Paladin]

There are also non-confrontational ways you could lose your gun with a non-retention holster, but don't listen to me...

Maybe you or somebody else could help out your arguement by listing out some examples of non-LEO concealed weapons holders who lost their guns due to not having a retention strap on their holster?

I agree with you that retention straps or other locking devices are good on OPEN CARRY holsters.

[cxm]

Amen to that ....

Chuck

Let me tell you something my LE brethren and cousins can tell you as fact. Handgun retention is difficult at best. If someone makes a grab for your gun you are in a life and death fight. It all has to be on. Throw out any thoughts of non-lethal force, worry about courts or anything else.

The only way to survive an attempted gun grab is to destroy the attacker. I mean if you get your second gun or not. I will also say that most of your energy and focus will be towards not losing possession of your main handgun. Think retention straps/buttons are stupid now?

You do not stop until the person is running away, totally disengages or is on the ground incapacitated.

You must know that if the attacker gets your gun you will be shot.

I pray no one here ever has to face this scenario.

[cxm]

Tom Givens from Rangemaster in Memphis has some good CQB instructions... I found it very useful... including one course taught by Dane Burns.

They go on the road fairly often and have held classes here in the Dallas area... probably do in Houston as well.

FWIW

Chuck

The only way to survive an attempted gun grab is to destroy the attacker.

I was trained exactly the same way. The Texas prison system offers some horrible firearms training....but their retention training and drills are excellent.

The drills always end with a COM shot while attempting to create a space between you and the attacker. Hard to imagine another way to deal with someone that is clearly trying to kill you with your own weapon.
Jason

I hope this does not hijack this thread....but does anyone teach retention skills locally (Houston). Any recommended books/videos on this?