OC in driveway

[magillapd]

I did a search and found a topic close to this but it didn't answer my question. I know that you can Open Carry on your property and in your home. The question is, can you open carry in your driveway. I'll paint this picture, driveway is in a housing addition, with kids outside playing, and plenty of cars driving by, and people walking down the sidewalk. This is also in a city, not the country.

Question is, if a police officer drives by and see's a person openly carrying in his garage/driveway, in full view of public, can that person #1 be arrested/charged and #2 would your CHL be revoked/suspended?

[Purplehood]

I did a search and found a topic close to this but it didn't answer my question. I know that you can Open Carry on your property and in your home. The question is, can you open carry in your driveway. I'll paint this picture, driveway is in a housing addition, with kids outside playing, and plenty of cars driving by, and people walking down the sidewalk. This is also in a city, not the country.

Question is, if a police officer drives by and see's a person openly carrying in his garage/driveway, in full view of public, can that person #1 be arrested/charged and #2 would your CHL be revoked/suspended?

I believe I recall an old thread where exactly that did happen. It shouldn't, but it can happen.

[Teamless]

magillapd, that is a great question!
I had (thought I) heard that it is legal to OC on your own property, therefore nothing "should" happen.
Whether it does happen is another question.
I guess I equate my thought process also to places like "The Arms Room" and other ranges, the employees are walking around (inside the stores) Open Carrying.
If they can OC inside (on their property - whether it be leased or owned), then they (us) should be able to also OC outside on our property (leased or owned)


For this particular question however, I would like to know what Charles (or other Lawyers) say, and what the LEOs on here have to say....
Can we be convicted of a crime of OC on our property or those properties which we have been deemed to protect?
Can we lose our CHL for OC on our property or those properties which we have been deemed to protect?

[dicion]

It is not illegal to openly carry on your own property.

What they will try to get you on, if they really want to arrest you, is Disorderly Conduct, specifically:

Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:
(8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;

Notice, it says 'public PLACE' not public property. Search 'Public Place' for past discussion on it, and srothstein has detailed exactly why your front lawn is indeed considered a 'public place'.

EDIT: Found the thread:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37450#p444326" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37450&p=444696#p444696" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[The Annoyed Man]

Isn't there a statute somewhere about "carrying in a manner intended to cause alarm or intimidation?" For instance, it is not illegal to carry a long gun down the street, but it if alarms somebody, then it becomes illegal.... ...or something to that effect.

I would think that OC on your own property, if it is visible to others, would fall under those guidelines. So if you're a rancher and you're in the habit of open carrying a sidearm while plowing the south 40, and it is not visible to passers-by who might be alarmed or intimidated by it, then it is perfectly legal... ...whereas if you are in your driveway in suburbia and your sidearm is visible enough to be alarming to passers-by, then you might be in violation of the law.

IANAL. IAN-YOUR-L. Etc., etc., etc., and maybe I'm crazy and don't remember it right.

EDITED TO ADD: dicion has beaten me to it, and with better information.

[bdickens]

The driveway is on your property, is it not?

[74novaman]

In my old neighborhood, they called the cops because an elderly gentleman was wandering around aimlessly in his own driveway with a cane. I'd hate to see what type of response a gun would have gotten.

[RPB]

As far as "private property" versus "public place" I read of a Disorderly Conduct conviction of a man on his porch waiving a shotgun around recklessly or in a manner calculated to cause alarm who was viewable to the public, was in a public place ... (he wasn't doing yardwork)


For the last year or two I open carry while doing yardwork etc, but I wouldn't if I lived where I used to.

Now I'm in the city, a small town of about 2,500 people (a "few" CHLs probably, I know 4 or 5 just in my very small home church, ... 2009 statistics (2010 are many more) County Population: 34147
Licenses: 356
Licenses % of State: 0.26%
Total Licenses Rank: 65) and all the neighbors have known me for years.

Other "Problems" you can have if you open carry in the yard, even with neighbors who accept it, are:

Neighbor motions for you to come across the street, he wants to tell you something ... do you
1) cover it and be sure you have your CHL with you while crossing the street?
2) pitch the pistol in a hidden location on your property so you can run across the street and back real fast (If night comes and you notice an empty holster, run look where you hid it?) { I'll never do that again, good thing it wasn't garbage day !!!]
3) after wearing it open/shirtless all day , is it now "concealed" after covering with a Tee-shirt or paper towel?
(3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence
of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a
reasonable person, who has been looking at it all day prior to your draping a garbage bag/towel etc over your pistol, holster and hip?
4) How about that city easement out by the street where you may or may not have a sidewalk?
Do I need to disarm, or conceal to cross it and get my mail from my mailbox at the street?
(don't walk through where the easement crosses your driveway?)

I carry IWB in a proper holster, never unholstering nor waiving it around, shirtless doing yardwork.

(My new weedeater gets more attention than my Glock)

A lot probably depends on where you live and your neighbors perception of you, and the perception of those who might drive by. I may have (not admitting anything, purely hypothetical) once while getting my mail out of my mailbox on my property with at least one foot on my property, accidentally set my other foot in the street ... thankfully no neighbor called 911 and no SWAT team arrived .... Your Mileage May Vary, depending on many factors.

Keeping in mind that your front yard can be considered "a public place" though "private property"
Disorderly Conduct can cost you your CHL
Just a few excerpts I selected from:
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/d ... /PE.42.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(but the link is so you can read more)
PENAL CODE
TITLE 9. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC ORDER AND DECENCY
CHAPTER 42. DISORDERLY CONDUCT AND RELATED OFFENSES
Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:

(2) makes an offensive gesture or display in a public place, and the gesture or display tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace;

(8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;

(10) exposes his [edited by RPB] in a public place and is reckless about whether another may be present who will be offended or alarmed by his act;

(c) For purposes of this section:

(1) an act is deemed to occur in a public place or near a private residence if it produces its offensive or proscribed consequences in the public place or near a private residence; and ...

(e) It is a defense to prosecution for an offense under Subsection (a)(7) or (9) that the person who discharged the firearm had a reasonable fear of bodily injury to the person or to another by a dangerous wild animal as defined by Section 822.101, Health and Safety Code

I do have snakes in my yard, but haven't needed to shoot any yet, I generally just make a contract ... you go your way, I'll go mine

(I find it an awesome fact that CHLs are among the most polite people in existence, rarely even using offensive labguage which could cost them their CHL under Sec. 42.01)

[Tamie]

Waving a gun around a manner to calculate alarm may be disorderly conduct. Carrying one openly in a holster is not, or else security guards and cops would be sitting behind bars for doing it.

Wearing a gun in a holster on your own property is no different than an interracial couple holding hands on their front porch swing or a Christian family having a manger on their front lawn during Christmas. Some intolerant people may not like it. It may even "incite an immediate breach of the peace" if an extremely bigotted person sees it. However, that's a result of the bigot's irrational intolerance of the civil rights of people better than themself.

[toddlinder]

Very good posts - seems like to me the issue is "how much risk is a person willing to take given their particular set of circumstances" for RPB the risk may be very low, for others it may be higher, since all you need is a complaint from what law enforcement would view as a credible source and those same officers viewing it (themselves) as causing alarm (given the situation) and you take the ride - hopefully you beat the rap.

Good judgement is needed along with assessing the risk and knowing how much risk you are willing to take.

[wgoforth]

The Apostle Paul said everything lawful is not always expedient. I believe that would be my take on the question.

[CC Italian]

Just one more reason why we need open carry as an option!

[glbedd53]

Still hasn't been an answer, is it legal or not. If I want to O.C. while mowing my yard is it legal?

[Tamie]

The Apostle Paul said everything lawful is not always expedient. I believe that would be my take on the question.

Was he the same Paul who wrote a letter to the people of Corinth saying it's better to carry than to burn?

[Tamie]

Still hasn't been an answer, is it legal or not. If I want to O.C. while mowing my yard is it legal?

IANAL but AFAIK it's legal. However, as others wrote, it may not be smart in some places in Texas because there are ignorant, prejudiced people who can hassle you. Some of them have badges.