Rifle - Best Defensive Weapon?

[Excaliber]

There's a lot of factors to consider, but it boils down to two critical things:
1) You're using a weapon that you can operate efficiently in low-light conditions. Night sights, reload drills in the (near) darkness, illumination skills (properly using light+gun), etc.. Any defensive caliber will stop a bad guy. But pistols also offer a highly unique advantage of being operable with one hand. Tactics trumps firepower in home defense situations, but without training, you're likely to be as much of a threat to the other occupants and neighbors as the bad guy. If you come into my home, you will encounter me with my Glock 23, just as if I was carrying concealed. I own ARs, AKs, Shotguns, etc, but my Glock 23 is what I _live_ with.
2) I allude to the second point in my first one: You hold the "high ground" advantage. You know precisely where all available cover and concealment is, light sources, even that darned lump in the carpet that will never go down that is a tripping hazard unless you know about it (c'mon, who hasn't watched "Home ALone" and not learned that lesson? ).

These two factors (training and terrain advantage) pretty much trumps everything else.

Don't forget mirrors, polished metal, and other reflective objects that reveal presence and movement. They aren't light sources, but they give away the positions of both the aggressor and the defender at unexpected angles even when there is no direct line of sight between the two.

[ELB]

...

Myth. Firing a shotgun at home defensive ranges will still require aiming and accurate shooting. It is not some magic hall-way-clearing talisman.
And, I would contend, knowing how your shotgun shoots and patterns with your standard loads is possibly more important. ...

Ditto. I have patterned my 870 with 20" barrel using 00 at various ranges using cardboard sheets, and at anything approaching an in-house defensive distance, the spread is something on the order of fist- or open-hand sized at most. Devastating, but still needs aiming.



As far as a self-defense arm -- nothing beats a rifle's effect. It is somewhat amusing that one of the 5.56/AR15's apparent drawbacks for military use (lack of penetration) turns out to be just peachy for in-home defense.

As far as length of rifle versus pistol in home...I doubt that a shouldered M-4 type AR-15 sticks out much farther than holding a pistol in one or both hands with extended arm (s). While it is true that you can hold the pistol in close, when adrenaline time kicks in it does seem lot of people go to full arms-length extension.

It is easier to keep a pistol handy but out of sight than a rifle, tho. (Which is one of the reasons I rely first on my pistol).

PIstol also gives less "real estate" to grab if someone does get close to you.

To me the whole tactics/know your ground thing doesn't point to one or the other (pistol vs rifle), if you are waiting for the burglar to come to you.

[OldCannon]

Don't forget mirrors, polished metal, and other reflective objects that reveal presence and movement. They aren't light sources, but they give away the positions of both the aggressor and the defender at unexpected angles even when there is no direct line of sight between the two.

"The Man With The Golden Gun"....cmon folks, you can learn EVERYTHING from watching movies

[Bart]

I prefer an AR when possible. It's easier to get good hits and neutralize the threats. Overpenetration with .223 is not a problem based on what I read and my own tests. It's more hassle to carry an AR and tight spaces like elevators are a problem, but overall it's my first choice in and around the house.

[The Annoyed Man]

I take it, from your two posts above, that you prefer an AR when possible. It's easier to get good hits and neutralize the threats. Overpenetration with .223 is not a problem based on what you've read and your own tests. It's more hassle to carry an AR and tight spaces like elevators are a problem, but overall it's your first choice in and around the house?

[jimlongley]

When I lived in upstate NY, my house clearing gun was an M1 Carbine, in IL it was my 1911 loaded with Cor-Bons, in TX I use a 1911 and a Mossberg 590. I have every confidence in my ability to handle the shotgun within the confines of my home, I know my gun and its patterns.

[dicion]

I have every confidence in my ability to handle the shotgun within the confines of my home, I know my gun and its patterns.

My 1911 next to the bed is to get me to the Remington 1100 10 feet away, which is loaded with 7+1 shells of 12ga 00 buck. With an 18" Barrel on it, it's ~about the same length as if I was holding my 1911 at full extension.
I've owned that shotgun longer than any of my other guns, as I've had it since I was 16, and I _know_ it ;)

[glbedd53]

I would like to see the evidence that .223 won't over penetrate. Or that a 9mm penetrates more than a .223. Before there got to be too many neighbors we used to shoot at a 1/4" steel plate at my in-laws house. The only handgun round that would so much as even dent it was my 44 mag. Everything else, even the .357 only made shiney spots on it. My Mini-14 punched clean little holes every time even at about 100 yards. The steel plate laughed at the 9mm.

[srothstein]

But pistols also offer a highly unique advantage of being operable with one hand.

I certainly hope that all of us have practiced using a pistol with just one hand, and with it being just the weak hand at that. But you really need to do the same with a long gun, and they can also be operated with just one hand. The most famous proof of this I know of is the FBI agent in the 1986 Miami shootout. After being wounded, he managed to figure out (never did practice it before or even think about that we know of) how to use a pump shotgun one-handed and stayed in the fight, eventually ending it (with a pistol he picked up). Given the situation, he would probably have been killed also if he tried to get out of the fight, so he did have some motivation. But it does prove that long guns can be used one handed. I think in most cases, it is easier to use an AR one handed than most other rifles and even most pistols, but almost any rifle can be used one handed.

On the tactics others have mentioned, I certainly hope the arms are not extended when moving with the pistol. It really puts you at even more of a disadvantage than just moving does. Keep the elbows at your side, or even keep the pistol at your side if you must move. As Excaliber mentioned, moving around the house is a bad idea, but I can understand why it might be necessary to get to where you can defend all the occupants. Make sure you know how to move with whatever weapon you use for home defense.

And my personal preference for a home defense weapon is still the good old pump shotgun. I am not nearly as worried over penetration with either the rifle or pistol, but I am convinced that a 12 gauge will have the least with the right loads.

[MechAg94]

I would like to see the evidence that .223 won't over penetrate. Or that a 9mm penetrates more than a .223. Before there got to be too many neighbors we used to shoot at a 1/4" steel plate at my in-laws house. The only handgun round that would so much as even dent it was my 44 mag. Everything else, even the .357 only made shiney spots on it. My Mini-14 punched clean little holes every time even at about 100 yards. The steel plate laughed at the 9mm.

1. Go look at the Box O'Truth web site. They have done testing with drywall and other common home building materials. Pistol rounds tend to go through them. 223 being lighter weight than most pistol rounds slows down and deflects sooner than a lot of pistol rounds in drywall. However, ALL rounds will penetrate walls. Never assume they won't.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2. Unless you live in a vault, there are no steel plates in your walls. Penetration through drywall is not the same. It may be the supersonic bullets in soft materials, I don't know. Pistol rounds penetrated further in sand also.

3. I don't think a short carbine rifle such as an AR or AK are at all less maneuverable in hallways and such. I think your tactics and methods may change with rifle versus pistol. I think you will point and aim a rifle much more accurately on average than a pistol. The higher velocity rounds will do more damage. If you need to aim more precisely, a rifle can do it. A pistol may not depending on the shooter.

I have a pistol handy first because it is smaller, easy to hide/conceal, and can be brought into action with one hand. A rifle isn't too far away though. If I had time to set up and gather my wits, I'd likely pull out the rifle. The only other advantage I can see with a pistol is you can carry a knife or big flashlight in the other hand. However, you can do those things with rifles also.

[texjames]

My primary go to in the house during the night would be my Glock 19 loaded with Winchester PDX1 124gr.I do have a AR15 10.5 inch SBR in the safe ready to go with a silencer and 20 rounds of
Hornady TAP 75gr BTHP and also my Mossy 590 loaded up with 8 rds of Winchester Ranger 00 buck 8 pellet, low recoil.I have patterned it.If i have to go outside i will go with the AR15
and i have a light on it, Aimpoint optic as well. I guess i am flexable and train with all of them regurally.I carry a Kahr PM 9 though summer and Kimber Ultra Carry 45 in winter.

[Humanphibian]

+1 for the AR. Something goes bump in the night....my black gun will get the nod over the 1911 EVERY TIME.

A few points on my choice:
I am totally comfortable in tight quarters with the AR
I am going to assume that any BG that may be in (or trying to enter) may have body armor on...primarily because I don't wanna take the time to ask before I choose my response tool.
I can sling the AR to my person. This will free my hands if necessary to open doors, release/direct dogs etc. I am not going to take time to "gear up" with my handgun carry rig
The AR makes a fairly effective impact/jab weapon.
Long gun offers FAR more weapon retention leverage if someone grabs end of the barrel.
Nothing wrong with mental impact of someone looking down the business end of a Smith Industries flash hider being illuminated by weapon light

finally chances are if something does go bump around my place....it is still outside, it has 4 legs, it will be going away from me as fast as possible, it knows it shouldn't have been wherever it was, and it is highly likely that I will be launching lead at it in short order...LOL

just my $.02

[glbedd53]

I'm gonna have to prove the penetration comparison for myself. I can't claim to have shot sheetrock (yet) but I have shot phone books, trees, cars, boards, etc. and every time the rifle bullet penetrates much deeper than any handgun round I have tried. Going to Arkansas next month and I will be takin sheetrock. .

[Ol Zeke]

I'm gonna have to prove the penetration comparison for myself. I can't claim to have shot sheetrock (yet) but I have shot phone books, trees, cars, boards, etc. and every time the rifle bullet penetrates much deeper than any handgun round I have tried. Going to Arkansas next month and I will be takin sheetrock. .

Try spacing the dry wall like a wall is built. Two pieces about 3.5" to 4" apart, then two to three feet behind those, place two more spaced at 3.5" and I think you'll see what they're talking about...... especially if you use a varmint round, such as Hornady's VMax (or a self defense round... I haven't tried them).

My experience (for what it's worth) is that they do penetrate, but tend to tumble and fragment upon leaving each obstacle. If you have enough drywall for a third mock wall, you will likely see a lot of small fragmented hits on it.

All the pistol rounds seem to stay together and penetrate more obstacles.

[MoJo]

I would like to see the evidence that .223 won't over penetrate. Or that a 9mm penetrates more than a .223. Before there got to be too many neighbors we used to shoot at a 1/4" steel plate at my in-laws house. The only handgun round that would so much as even dent it was my 44 mag. Everything else, even the .357 only made shiney spots on it. My Mini-14 punched clean little holes every time even at about 100 yards. The steel plate laughed at the 9mm.

Industry standard penetration tests are done in calibrated 10% ballistic gel "Gello". The fragmentation/tumbling of the 5.56/.223 bullets limits penetration in tissue. Penetration through Sheetrock walls, wooden walls etc. is almost guaranteed with any self defense caliber.