Legality of 51% sign in a bar in a bowling alley?

[wcalvert]

Hello everyone! First post here. I just completed my CHL class last weekend and got my packet off on Monday, but I've started training myself to look for 51% and 30.06 signs.

At the AMF Bowling Center in Humble (NE Houston) Address: 19214 Highway 59 N, Humble, TX

they have an interesting sign situation. I'm going to need a visual aid for this one.



The bar area as some other signage around, like nobody under 21 allowed and they have a 51% sign behind the counter on the mirror. The 51% sign faces the south wall in this drawing. They have different carpet, but there is no door to enter the bar. If you went bowling and never got anything from the bar, you would have no idea it was there. The other thing, is that you can order from the bar and never see the 51% sign. I used a blue line where you can get service (bar counter) and it wraps around towards the separated food counter.

Thoughts? I have seen fights in the parking lot of this bowling alley so I typically go to the other bowling alley, but it would be nice to know.

Thanks!

[Teamless]

I started a very similar thread a few months ago
see: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33095&hilit=+bowling" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Basically, it depends on the license that the bowling center has.
In my case, it was also AMF (Alpha Lanes - Webster) and I sent a note to TABC via email, they went in, did an audit and fined the center for wrongful posting of the signs.

In the end, ONLY the bar was posted 51% after TABC was done with them.

[RPBrown]

IANAL but I would think it would have to be enclosed seperatly from the alley unless it still makes 51% including food and bowling.

[cling]

I think the official answer is it depends how the licensed premise diagram was drawn on their license application, and if they're actually a 51% establishment as determined by TABC.

[C-dub]

Since no one else has asked yet, I will. Is the 51% on the sign red or blue?

[Teamless]

Since no one else has asked yet, I will. Is the 51% on the sign red or blue?

LOL - Trick question?
As 51% is only on the red signs....

[C-dub]

Not a trick, I didn't think. I've never seen any 51% signs myself, but from other discussions around here I thought there was also a blue one.

[Teamless]

I thought there was also a blue one.

the blue one (its blue bordered normally) says the "unlicensed possession" as opposed to the 51% with the red border and red 51% diagonally across the sign

[wcalvert]

I started a very similar thread a few months ago
see: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33095&hilit=+bowling" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Basically, it depends on the license that the bowling center has.
In my case, it was also AMF (Alpha Lanes - Webster) and I sent a note to TABC via email, they went in, did an audit and fined the center for wrongful posting of the signs.

In the end, ONLY the bar was posted 51% after TABC was done with them.

If this is the case, then I think this bowling alley is doing it correctly. I'm not even going to try venturing into the legality of me being able to order a beer from outside the "bar area".

The main point of my post was to make sure that I could conceal carry while bowling, not while getting a drink at the bar.

In the end, it's one of those situations where I'll just give my buddy the cash to go get us a pitcher

[C-dub]

My apologies!

I'll try again.

To the OP, was the 51% sign red?

[wcalvert]

My apologies!

I'll try again.

To the OP, was the 51% sign red?

yes it was red. 51% are only red. The blue sign that people are referring to says nothing about percentages and talks about unlawful possession because alcohol is sold on the premises. if they want to ban handguns with a blue sign then they need to put up a 30.06 as well.

[srothstein]

The answer to the situation in the original post is that there is definitely something illegal going on but we do not have enough information to make a determination.

There are three possible situations. The most likely one is that the bar license only applies to the bar area. In this case, the selling of drinks outside the licensed area is illegal. This can be done by making a diagram of the alley to show only the bar as a licensed premise when the bar applies for the license.

The second possibility is that the bar license covers the whole alley. This happens if the bar does not diagram off the rest of the alley. In that case, the 51% applies to the whole alley and the signs are improperly posted.

The third possibility is that the bar is owned and operated by the alley. In that case, the 51% sign is probably posted improperly and the alley and bar are open for CHL carry. Given the number of places that contract out the bar operation (lease the space to a separate bar), this is highly unlikely, but it is possible.

[Keith B]

AMF Humble Bowl shows to have a Food and Beverage license in the TABC public database, so they have the 51% sign improperly posted as they can't be 51% with an FB.

If you contact the TABC, they will have them remove the sign and make sure they have the correct 'Unlicensed possession' signs up.

[wcalvert]

AMF Humble Bowl shows to have a Food and Beverage license in the TABC public database, so they have the 51% sign improperly posted as they can't be 51% with an FB.

If you contact the TABC, they will have them remove the sign and make sure they have the correct 'Unlicensed possession' signs up.

Thank you for the info (and everyb ody else for their thoughts as well).
One possibility that i'm thinking of is that their license covers the food area and that their bar may be separate. I will contact the TABC and will bump this thread with the result.

[Keith B]

AMF Humble Bowl shows to have a Food and Beverage license in the TABC public database, so they have the 51% sign improperly posted as they can't be 51% with an FB.

If you contact the TABC, they will have them remove the sign and make sure they have the correct 'Unlicensed possession' signs up.

Thank you for the info (and everyb ody else for their thoughts as well).
One possibility that i'm thinking of is that their license covers the food area and that their bar may be separate. I will contact the TABC and will bump this thread with the result.

The database shows only one license for that address, so no matter what, they should NOT have the 51% sign up period, no matter what the area that is actually licensed is. If you can get a look at the license that is posted on the wall for the location, it should say SIGN=BLUE (not SIGN=RED) and that will tell you.

As you mentioned you will do, the best bet is to contact your local TABC office and they will make sure they get the correct signs posted in the correct locations.