Selling a gun in TX

[RECIT]

Just an exchange of payment for product and a hand shake is all required between Texas residence. But like stated previously be weary of shady looking people who want guns with out paperwork. If you ask for ID or request a bill of sale and you get some hesitation...walk away.

[bigred90gt]

When I bought my last gun at the show I filled out that form and they called someone and made sure I was ok. I passed and I took my new gun home. Does that form and call just check to make sure I am not a bad guy or do they actually tie the sn of the gun to me?

Anyone know the answer to this part? I dont recall signing the form at the gunshow that had a SN on it. just info about me.

I have a few guns that I bought back when I lived in CA and I know they tie the SN to you. If I sell those, I will require the buyer to use an FFL.

When they call, they are running an instant background check. they give them your name, birthdate, SSN, height, weight, I believe address, and possibly hair/eye color as well. the people on the other end of the line will run you through the system for a background check and give them an approved/denied answer, and I think also a "transaction code" of some sort that can be used to verify the background check actually took place if they are audited. To my knowledge, there is no discussion of what you are buying, other than type of weapon (handgun/rifle/shotgun).

[tubular031]

When I bought my last gun at the show I filled out that form and they called someone and made sure I was ok. I passed and I took my new gun home. Does that form and call just check to make sure I am not a bad guy or do they actually tie the sn of the gun to me?

Anyone know the answer to this part? I dont recall signing the form at the gunshow that had a SN on it. just info about me.

I have a few guns that I bought back when I lived in CA and I know they tie the SN to you. If I sell those, I will require the buyer to use an FFL.

When they call, they are running an instant background check. they give them your name, birthdate, SSN, height, weight, I believe address, and possibly hair/eye color as well. the people on the other end of the line will run you through the system for a background check and give them an approved/denied answer, and I think also a "transaction code" of some sort that can be used to verify the background check actually took place if they are audited. To my knowledge, there is no discussion of what you are buying, other than type of weapon (handgun/rifle/shotgun).

That is what I thought. When filling out that form I dont ever remember seeing anything about the SN of the gun.

I have given them everything about me except for my SSN and they have cleared me every time now. Now that I have my CHL do they still need to call it in?

[Rex B]

When you finish your part of that form, the FFL fills out his section, which includes the make, model, and serial number of the gun(s).
When he calls in, the gun information is not mentioned nor requested. However, that dealer keeps that form on file until he gets out of the business, or dies. Then those files go to the Feds. Unless there's a fire or other unfortunate accident.
That is how guns are traced. It can be tracked from manufacturer, to distributor, to retailer (the FFL who sold it) and then to you. That last part involves the BATF going to the FFL's place of business and looking through his records for that form you filled out.
For used guns it's not so clear. While the sale from FFL to you is recorded on that paper, if the gun ever changed hands in a personal transaction, the paper trail from the manufacturer is lost.
At a gun show, some tables are licensed FFLs, others are individuals. The individuals don't make you fill out the form*
Many of us prefer to do personal transactions to build our collection. You meet some mighty decent people that way. Met one last night at Cabelas, got a nice Single Six in stainless at a great price.

Hope that helps

*There is at least one gun show in Austin this year that required even individuals to make all transactions through one of the FFLs at the show.
There is another thread here on that subject. I would not attend such a show.

[tubular031]

That is how guns are traced. It can be tracked from manufacturer, to distributor, to retailer (the FFL who sold it) and then to you. That last part involves the BATF going to the FFL's place of business and looking through his records for that form you filled out.
For used guns it's not so clear. While the sale from FFL to you is recorded on that paper, if the gun ever changed hands in a personal transaction, the paper trail from the manufacturer is lost.

So lets say the gun I bought from an FFL at the show turns up in a crime or somthing bad. They trace it to the FFL and they say they sold it to me. Now the feds come and ask me about it. Is the answer "I sold it to some guy" enough? Yea I sold it to someone who was a good CHL perfect person but who knows what will happen after that. So am I now on the hook for the bad that gun did?

[Cobra Medic]

So lets say the gun I bought from an FFL at the show turns up in a crime or somthing bad. They trace it to the FFL and they say they sold it to me. Now the feds come and ask me about it. Is the answer "I sold it to some guy" enough? Yea I sold it to someone who was a good CHL perfect person but who knows what will happen after that. So am I now on the hook for the bad that gun did?

It's the same principle as selling a car p2p that the buyer uses in a crime.

[Rex B]

That is how guns are traced. It can be tracked from manufacturer, to distributor, to retailer (the FFL who sold it) and then to you. That last part involves the BATF going to the FFL's place of business and looking through his records for that form you filled out.
For used guns it's not so clear. While the sale from FFL to you is recorded on that paper, if the gun ever changed hands in a personal transaction, the paper trail from the manufacturer is lost.

So lets say the gun I bought from an FFL at the show turns up in a crime or somthing bad. They trace it to the FFL and they say they sold it to me. Now the feds come and ask me about it. Is the answer "I sold it to some guy" enough? Yea I sold it to someone who was a good CHL perfect person but who knows what will happen after that. So am I now on the hook for the bad that gun did?

Just keep records of Emails, names, phone numbers, dates.
I record the disposal of all my firearms. "Sold/traded [name] [date]"

If the firearm is later used in a crime, and you were never involved, you are fine.

Cobra Medic's point is valid. Some years back I sold a van. 18 months later I get a parking ticket in the mail from City of Dallas. I wrote back that the van had been sold to so-and-so on a certain date, well before the parking infraction. Case closed.
Granted, it was a parking ticket, not Murder One.

[tubular031]

So lets say the gun I bought from an FFL at the show turns up in a crime or somthing bad. They trace it to the FFL and they say they sold it to me. Now the feds come and ask me about it. Is the answer "I sold it to some guy" enough? Yea I sold it to someone who was a good CHL perfect person but who knows what will happen after that. So am I now on the hook for the bad that gun did?

It's the same principle as selling a car p2p that the buyer uses in a crime.

Kinda. when you sell someone a car they are suppose to take the title over to their tax office and transfer ownership. But yes if they buy it from you on Monday and Wednesday use it as a getaway car in a bank robery they will be looking at you for info.

[mgood]

It can be tracked from manufacturer, to distributor, to retailer (the FFL who sold it) and then to you. That last part involves the BATF going to the FFL's place of business and looking through his records for that form you filled out.

They can do it with a phone call.
When I worked in the gun store, we got a call, every couple weeks or so, from the ATF wanting us to go look something up from those records. Such and such type of gun, SN blah blah, who did you sell it to? That sort of thing.

So lets say the gun I bought from an FFL at the show turns up in a crime or somthing bad. They trace it to the FFL and they say they sold it to me. Now the feds come and ask me about it. Is the answer "I sold it to some guy" enough? Yea I sold it to someone who was a good CHL perfect person but who knows what will happen after that. So am I now on the hook for the bad that gun did?

For that reason, the guy who owned the store where I used to work always suggested that people make a bill of sale, just a hand written piece of paper with drivers license numbers or something like that to identify each individual. Just saying this person is selling this gun to this other person and you both sign it and both get a copy of it. That protects you both. If you sell a gun to someone and it's later recovered at a crime scene, you have a record of selling it and to whom. Or if, for whatever reason, the SN of your gun gets run and they say it was stolen, you have a record of who you bought it from.

You are not required to keep any such records. Lots of perfectly law-abinding citizens don't want any paper trail that the feds can use to connect them with guns and only buy and sell FTF with no paperwork. But just be careful who you deal with. If I was selling a gun to someone who didn't want to exchange information, wouldn't give me any ID, I'd probably at least write down the license plate number of the vehicle they drove, print any emails, make notes of any phone calls, and tuck that information away, just in case.

[USA1]

Now that I have my CHL do they still need to call it in?

No. You've already been vetted by the State.

[Rex B]

As to the bill of sale suggestion, I'm good with that, and I've signed a few and (rarely) required a few.
I would suggest you advise the buyer/seller up front that you will want to document the sale, and be sure to come with two copies.

I recently met a man to buy a pistol. He was 30 minutes late, then he popped a BOS out for me to sign. No 2nd copy, and no prior mention.
I should have walked away. Turned out the pistol was a dud anyway. Karma.

[Cobra Medic]

Kinda. when you sell someone a car they are suppose to take the title over to their tax office and transfer ownership. But yes if they buy it from you on Monday and Wednesday use it as a getaway car in a bank robery they will be looking at you for info.

Right. They're supposed to, but if they're buying it with the intent of using it in a crime, they probably won't register it.

More mundane but you can also get red light camera tickets, toll road violations, etc. unless you send in a Vehicle Transfer Notification form within 30 days of the sale, but it's like a p2p gun sale because there's no real proof beyond your word.