Friend wants to use 25 acp for CCW, how to talk sense?

[drjoker]

A friend of mine inherited a colt 25 acp pistol that she intends to use for CCW. She even wants to take her CHL exam with it. I explained to her that there is a 38 caliber minimum for the CHL exam so I told her to take her CHL class at a place that loaned guns to students. Anyways, I know that there's no firing pin safety on those old guns so I told her that she should carry it with no round in the chamber and practice drawing, racking the slide, then firing it, Israeli-style. She told me that this was silly because, "I grew up in the country. I KNOW how to handle a gun. I'm not gonna drop it." Wild Bill Hickok had a ND with a revolver and a gunwriter died from a ND with a Colt 25 acp pistol that he accidentally dropped. If these pros had a ND with a gun that has no firing pin safety then you can bet that you will do so probably one day. That's why these old guns should always be carried with no round in the chamber (condition 3?). How should I persuade her to carry her piece Israeli-style? I gave her an owner's manual and hoped that she'll read it and believe Colt, if not me. Ugh....

[carlson1]

Minimum caliber to qualify for a Texas CHL is .32.

[RPB]

Points you can tell her, if she won't listen to safeties/caliber issues

1) If she ever uses it, maybe even just to display it, it will be taken away as evidence.
Does she really want to lose that thing she inherited?

2) If size/weight is her reason for wanting to carry a .25, show her a LW Seecamp .32 or .380
They are as small or smaller, and Stainless (less worry about rust) and replaceable, (unlike one she inherited)
Sorta expensive, but great quality. Might find a used one, each is hand made, not many people turn loose of one after they own one. The .32s are easier to find used since the .380s came out.

(Or, a keltec .32/.380, which is a bit bigger, but lighter, not real expensive new)
Or, something like an OMT AMT backup .380 - pretty cheap used, some work real well, others may not. (either Single action or DAO) Aluminum frame SA or all Stainless DAO

[Warhammer]

Encourage her to join the forum. This place has a lot of really intelligent and experienced people who can be very persuasive. That way, it's not up to you alone to show her the light, and she will see that it's not just YOUR opinion that the little .25 is not a really good choice for carry.

[hangfour]

I'm a little older than some who post here and I've learned that when friends have 'bad' ideas about something to just share my experience in the matter and let it go at that. People need their mistakes. I know I've needed mine. After your friend takes the class I bet she will become a little more humble.

[jamisjockey]

She won't be able to take her CHL class with it, the minimum caliber for qualifing is .32

[lonewolf]

I'm a little older than some who post here and I've learned that when friends have 'bad' ideas about something to just share my experience in the matter and let it go at that. People need their mistakes. I know I've needed mine. After your friend takes the class I bet she will become a little more humble.

Agree with the above, but possibly you can encourage her to go to the range with you and let her fire something of yours that might be a better fit for her hands, more reliable and safer. Kinda quietly, without any pressure. She may find the .25 just too small and inconvenient. Show her some hoster wear so she can see what carrying can do to a gun's finish, etc, etc. She will still decide on her own.

One of my uncles has the .25 my grandmother used to carry back in the day. I would love to have it just to have it, but it would be a safe queen here just like it is at his house......

[drjoker]

I'm also shocked at exactly how expensive these things are, too. There's one for sale on GunsAmerica for $1800.00 !! My wife saw me looking at the following pic online and announces that although she doesn't think it's necessary to carry a gun, if she were to do so, she'd carry THAT gun. What?! "You don't even know what that gun is... and why?" I asked.

"Yes, I do know what that gun is. It's a Baby Browning."

"Close enough. Baby Brownings came from the same design, just different manufacturers from different continents. Why?"

"It's real pretty and it's romantic. Chiang Kia Shek (famous anti-communist general) gave one to his wife and told her if the Japanese or Communists come for you, shoot them, but save the last round for yourself. That was his wedding present to her."

[CC Italian]

25acp is a backup round, nothing more. No one would ever carry that as a primary if they knew anything about firearms. I have never shot one but from what I understand the .22lr is more affective against stopping a threat. It is a pretty dismal round. Just look at the velocity and energy figures. I would be practicing head shots like crazy with a round like that and I wouldn't be surprised if some had problems penetrating the skull.

The only .32 I carry is a .32 H&R which is adequate for personal protection. I normally would not condone even a .32 acp as a primary but in this case a .32 acp would be miles ahead of the .25acp. Explain to her the ineffectiveness of this round and see if she will go .32acp or .380 acp. I guess I would take a .25acp over nothing!

I have even met a few CHL instructors who won't even let people shoot a .32 or .380 when qualifying for your CHL because they think it is just stupid, they want 9mm or better to qualify. Don't know if that’s legal but they do it.

[jamisjockey]

Neat little pistol!

[USA1]

Friends don't let friends carry a .25

My very first gun was a little stainless .25 with pearl grips that I paid $60 for new...I wish I would have kept it.

[drjoker]

It is a pretty dismal round. I wouldn't be surprised if some had problems penetrating the skull.

You're right. If you're hard headed enough or if the ammo was old enough/bad enough, it will bounce off your skull The 25 acp round has problems penetrating bone. A guy came into the E.R. once with a bullet wound to the head. He was stable, so we X-Ray-ed him. To our surprise, the bullet did not penetrate the skull. So, we told the rest of the arriving trauma team to leave as they were not necessary.

COM mass shots won't work because the rib cage might stop the bullets.

The only way you could stop an assailant with a 25 acp would be to shoot them in the carotid artery or jugular vein in the neck. A shot in the jugular would take 6-8 min for you to lose consciousness. A shot in the carotid would take 1-3 min for you to lose consciousness. A shot in the eye socket would penetrate the paper thin bone in back of the eye. The bullet will enter the brain and this may stop a person immediately. However, if you miss the eye socket and hit the head, it may bounce right off the skull.

Even the lowly 22 lr is better as the velocity is higher so that it will penetrate the skull reliably (unless you're using subsonic 22 lr). With the advent of modern 380s such as kel-tec p3at and ruger lcp, the colt 25 auto is obsolete. However, since there were over a MILLION of these manufactured due to their low price, they are everywhere. I'm sure that a fair number of them are being carried as a CCW....

[gigag04]

Shot shell may very well get you some pain compliance.

[snorri]

To play Devil's Advocate:

If you're going to carry a low powered caliber, why handicap yourself even more by downloading one round and requiring two hands to make the handgun ready to fire?

Plus, James Bond thought .25ACP was good enough before he was forced to change.

[RPB]

To play Devil's Advocate:

If you're going to carry a low powered caliber, why handicap yourself even more by downloading one round and requiring two hands to make the handgun ready to fire?

Plus, James Bond thought .25ACP was good enough before he was forced to change.

Yeah, but James was from the UK ... now, whats a Texan like Chuck Norris carry?