Winchester Olin IL ammo plant moving

[OldSchool]

I haven't seen this here yet. I'm guessing this belongs in this forum.

http://www.bnd.com/2010/11/04/1463361/o ... nt-to.html

EAST ALTON, Ill. -- Despite the urging of two federal lawmakers, Olin Corp. says it is moving an ammunition plant and 1,000 jobs from Illinois to Mississippi.

Has to do with union problems. I'm wondering if this will interrupt their operations?

[TxRVer]

I read about this on another board. Looks like they already had plans to move. Illinois politicians have been trying to keep them from moving since August. Possibly the company made demands the union members just couldn't live with, making it easy for the company to make the move.

[WildBill]

Unions aside, poorer states like Mississippi provide incentives for companies to move their manufacturing operations. Mississippi probably has less restrictive employment and environmental laws than Illinois. The state will give them tax breaks, help build facilities and provide resources to train employees. Local workers will accept lower wages when there isn't competition from other employers.

[OldSchool]

I read about this on another board. Looks like they already had plans to move. Illinois politicians have been trying to keep them from moving since August. Possibly the company made demands the union members just couldn't live with, making it easy for the company to make the move.

As I understand it, Olin requested a wage freeze for seven years, which is pretty much the expected duration before we're out of this depression (unless QE2 really does happen -- in which case it will be longer). The union refused, saying that the firm "is still profitable." This was similar to the problems with the Chicago convention center (except Olin still has revenue coming in, while the convention center is being shunned due to extreme cost of booking). As wages and jobs decrease, there are millions of people right now who could use those "frozen" wages.

The Illinois politicians said they had successfully brought in Federal contracts for Olin (read: "earmarks"), but those look to me to only bring in revenue on the order of the cost savings of moving out of Illinois (remember the new taxes that state just voted into existence).

Olin can go wherever they feel is best, and the deep south is in the ascendancy; I'm just wondering what their plan is for keeping production going, in the short term, without a union contract in Illinois. Will they immediately start up in MS, with a temporary operation? Will there be another ammo availability challenge? Will Olin's quality suffer (I just rediscovered how good it really is)? Will John find Marsha?

[WildBill]

If Winchester Olin has contracts with the government, they will have a plan to meet their contractual requirements during the transistion.

Oldschool - You probably already know that moving manufacuring operations always means increased risk in the quantity and quality of products.

P.S. I can't speculate about John and Marsha.

[Jim Lockey]

How about right to work states rather than poor states. I wouldn't call Tenn a poor state neither does VW.

[WildBill]

How about right to work states rather than poor states. I wouldn't call Tenn a poor state neither does VW.

I am not sure what you meant by your comment. My statement about "poorer" states means that some states with few manufacturing plants or other businesses have programs to actively seek new business for their states. It doesn't mean that other states don't provide incentives for companies to move or build plants.

[Salty1]

Personally I am glad to see it. I wish all firearms manufacturing business would leave any state that is anti 2nd Amendment. Texas went after rhe telcom industry years ago and that brought many good jobs to Texas. Maybe they should now go get the firearms industry to relocate here....

[mr surveyor]

And the South Shall Rise Again


surv

[OldSchool]

WRT "poorer" states: I understood that you meant poor in income. Many years ago, in a discussion with someone from another state about taxes in my native state (not Texas), she told me "Your state is so poor!" since we didn't have all the taxes (including sales tax) that her state had. I couldn't convince her that our economy and taxes were well-balanced, fair and did not need to feed a large government. We had all we needed, including pride and community. Didn't matter, though, as people from her state eventually moved in and changed everything -- including jumps in taxes in hundreds of percent, and oppressive labor and environmental laws (because we weren't smart enough to take care of ourselves). I myself prefer the "poorer" states, just as I really do prefer dirt roads compared to concrete.
That doesn't make sense to most, and I do understand.

WRT enticing businesses to come into Texas: Just continue to do what we're doing. Think about how much the citizens of MS will have to pay in the short term for those enticements for Olin. It will certainly pay off in the long run, but it will mean higher taxes in the short term (or higher debt, and how is that doing in CA?). On the other hand, having a (relatively) reasonable tax base is already pulling in business for Texas. So, we just need to continue to take care of our people, and the businesses will continue to come.

JMHO.

[Oldgringo]

Back in the early 70's, I was the construction Project Manager on a Guide Lamp Division of GM plant being built in Monroe, LA. A few years after a much heralded opening, the locals voted to go union. Anybody passing through Monroe can take note of the quite large empty facility off I-20 on the east side of Monroe with the aging and large FOR SALE sign on it.

Perhaps the good folk of Mississippi will have enough sense not to kill the goose that lays the golden egg?

[OldSchool]

Thinking about ammo plants in the South: Are there any in Texas? I think I've heard of only one.

[anygunanywhere]

Thinking about ammo plants in the South: Are there any in Texas? I think I've heard of only one.

The only nuclear weapon production facility in the US is in Texas. Pantex near Amarillo. Don't know of any ammo production.

Anygun

[The Annoyed Man]

Thinking about ammo plants in the South: Are there any in Texas? I think I've heard of only one.

The only nuclear weapon production facility in the US is in Texas. Pantex near Amarillo. Don't know of any ammo production.

Anygun

I have a reloading bench. Does that count?

[The Annoyed Man]

I read about this on another board. Looks like they already had plans to move. Illinois politicians have been trying to keep them from moving since August. Possibly the company made demands the union members just couldn't live with, making it easy for the company to make the move.

As I understand it, Olin requested a wage freeze for seven years, which is pretty much the expected duration before we're out of this depression (unless QE2 really does happen -- in which case it will be longer). The union refused, saying that the firm "is still profitable." This was similar to the problems with the Chicago convention center (except Olin still has revenue coming in, while the convention center is being shunned due to extreme cost of booking). As wages and jobs decrease, there are millions of people right now who could use those "frozen" wages.

The Union's declaration that they refuse concession because the firm is "still profitable" can easily be translated as, "we're not done squeezing it until it is no longer profitable." They would kill and eat the goose that lays the golden egg. They deserve their fate. No sympathy for the unions here.

The Illinois politicians said they had successfully brought in Federal contracts for Olin (read: "earmarks"), but those look to me to only bring in revenue on the order of the cost savings of moving out of Illinois (remember the new taxes that state just voted into existence).

The Illinois politicians forget that those earmarks are mostly paid for by taxpayers in other states. The population of Illinois is 12,910,409. The population of Texas is 24,782,302 — or nearly twice that of Illinois. In other words, Texans contribute TWICE what Illinois residents contribute to those earmarks. In fact, a little more than 8% of all those monies come from Texan taxpayers. Illinois politicians can go blow up for all I care. They've already lost the respect of the nation. They need to lose their jobs to boot. Remember.... Obama is an example of an Illinois politician. I don't want one single penny of my taxes used to keep union jobs alive in Illinois.

Olin can go wherever they feel is best, and the deep south is in the ascendancy; I'm just wondering what their plan is for keeping production going, in the short term, without a union contract in Illinois. Will they immediately start up in MS, with a temporary operation? Will there be another ammo availability challenge? Will Olin's quality suffer (I just rediscovered how good it really is)? Will John find Marsha?

I imagine that they have adequately capitalized the move such that they will have stood up the plant in Mississippi and will have started up production there before completely phasing out the plant in Illinois. I helped move a printing business from California to Texas. We made arrangements to have a large part of our production underway in Texas before shutting down our facility in California. In the end, part of our production capacity was offline for about 5 or 6 days, so the lag in customer delivery was small and easily caught up with. 10 days after moving, we were fully up to speed and running like we'd never left. And we were a small, struggling, arguably under-capitalized company. A large corporation like Winchester Olin will have made sure that the closing of one plant and the opening of another will not affect to any measurable degree the availability of their product to their distributors, and ultimately, the consumers.