Friend wants to use 25 acp for CCW, how to talk sense?

[snorri]

Yeah, but James was from the UK ... now, whats a Texan like Chuck Norris carry?

[Oldgringo]

It is a pretty dismal round. I wouldn't be surprised if some had problems penetrating the skull.

You're right. If you're hard headed enough or if the ammo was old enough/bad enough, it will bounce off your skull The 25 acp round has problems penetrating bone. A guy came into the E.R. once with a bullet wound to the head. He was stable, so we X-Ray-ed him. To our surprise, the bullet did not penetrate the skull. So, we told the rest of the arriving trauma team to leave as they were not necessary.

COM mass shots won't work because the rib cage might stop the bullets.

The only way you could stop an assailant with a 25 acp would be to shoot them in the carotid artery or jugular vein in the neck. A shot in the jugular would take 6-8 min for you to lose consciousness. A shot in the carotid would take 1-3 min for you to lose consciousness. A shot in the eye socket would penetrate the paper thin bone in back of the eye. The bullet will enter the brain and this may stop a person immediately. However, if you miss the eye socket and hit the head, it may bounce right off the skull.

Even the lowly 22 lr is better as the velocity is higher so that it will penetrate the skull reliably (unless you're using subsonic 22 lr). With the advent of modern 380s such as kel-tec p3at and ruger lcp, the colt 25 auto is obsolete. However, since there were over a MILLION of these manufactured due to their low price, they are everywhere. I'm sure that a fair number of them are being carried as a CCW....

HERE"S AN IDEA!

Rather than continue with non-persuasive arguments possibly leading to an end in friendships, why not don a sweatshirt and cover it with your Carhartt sailcloth hooded jacket and ler her shoot you COM. Unless she hits you in the eye or something, this should prove, once and for all to your friend and your wife, that the .25 acp is not a suitable CCW calibre - regardless of the guns' cost and beauty.

Whadda' ya' think?

[quidni]

2) If size/weight is her reason for wanting to carry a .25, show her a LW Seecamp .32 or .380
They are as small or smaller, and Stainless (less worry about rust) and replaceable, (unlike one she inherited)
Sorta expensive, but great quality. Might find a used one, each is hand made, not many people turn loose of one after they own one. The .32s are easier to find used since the .380s came out.

(Or, a keltec .32/.380, which is a bit bigger, but lighter, not real expensive new)
Or, something like an OMT AMT backup .380 - pretty cheap used, some work real well, others may not. (either Single action or DAO) Aluminum frame SA or all Stainless DAO

Don't forget the NAA Guardian in .32.

[MoJo]

Yeah, but James was from the UK ... now, whats a Texan like Chuck Norris carry?

Carlos Ray "Chuck" Norris was born March 10, 1940 in Ryan, Oklahoma therefore making him an Oklahoman by birth. If I'm not mistaken, he lives in California!

[Mike1951]

To play Devil's Advocate:

If you're going to carry a low powered caliber, why handicap yourself even more by downloading one round and requiring two hands to make the handgun ready to fire?

Plus, James Bond thought .25ACP was good enough before he was forced to change.

I agree completely! Everything that has been said about the .25acp is true. You are placing way too much importance on a firing pin safety. If I liked a handgun, I certainly would not let the lack of a firing pin safety color my decision.

With the chamber empty, it becomes far worse than useless and it's not even heavy enough to throw at someone.

If I ever find either a Colt or Baby Browning that I can afford, I would probably carry it as a backup occasionally just because they're classic, not because the .25acp is practical.

[RPB]

Yeah, but James was from the UK ... now, whats a Texan like Chuck Norris carry?

Carlos Ray "Chuck" Norris was born March 10, 1940 in Ryan, Oklahoma therefore making him an Oklahoman by birth. If I'm not mistaken, he lives in California!

Yeah, he was hatched an Okie, but he got here.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... orris.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Chuck Norris lives at the appropriately named "Norris Ranch" near Navasota, in Grimes County, Texas. It is officially called "Lone Wolf Ranch," after the action hero Lone Wolf McQuade.
He is a Commissioned Police Officer for Terrell, Texas.
He's in the Texas Ranger Hall of Fame.
He started up that martial arts program at Williams Middle School in Houston, Texas.

He owns homes in California, Texas, and the Caribbean, but he's a Texan at heart I think.



Sorry, back to the topic .... not that I can add anything to what's been said already.

[Embalmo]

Have her take it to the range. I've never seen a .25 automatic cycle reliably. Get her a BB gun, you'll get better reliability and deeper penetration.

Embalmo

[Zoti]

Yeah, but James was from the UK ... now, whats a Texan like Chuck Norris carry?

So chuck is carrying Israeli style as well?

[Rick343]

I would recommend a 22 with stingers or mini mags before I would a 25 or 32

[Oldgringo]

Yeah, but James was from the UK ... now, whats a Texan like Chuck Norris carry?

So chuck is carrying Israeli style as well?

Do we not have an "OFF TOPIC" smiley?

[USA1]

Do we not have an "OFF TOPIC" smiley?

[shootthesheet]

My wife won't let go of her Beretta Tomcat in .32 APC and I cringe every time I think about it. It isn't enough but she doesn't want to change because of the size and trigger when it is cocked. She likes the manual safety. All my moaning and groaning about it stops before it reaches my tongue because at least she will shoot the darn thing and she can hit what she is aiming at. Yes, the .25 is under powered and I wouldn't carry one as even a BUG. Same with a .32 as my opinion goes. However, the main thing is that she is getting her CHL and is willing to carry. GET HER ON THIS BOARD and let her read what the guys and especially gals write about caliber choice and how important it is to have an effective one.

I don't know if she is going to have time to learn once she starts carrying and before she has to defend herself. Odds are she will have enough time to at least get to the point she will consider another caliber. That little gun may be why she is willing to carry and if the O.P. pushes to hard she might decide not to get a CHL at all. It may be a romanticized thought process since the gun was handed down to her. Most all of us, if not all, had a view of CHL that just wasn't realistic. Even those who knew about effective calibers may not be carrying the same gun because it was just to big or to small for whatever reason. I wouldn't say a word about the .32 Auto my wife likes if she would just decide to get her CHL and carry it every day. I would simply get her on this board and get her to read Cornered Cat so she can get straightened out by someone other than me. Maybe even a basic pistol course taught by a woman before the CHL class. One thing about some people is they will only listen to those they consider experts. Even if they tell them the same thing their we are telling them.

[Ropin]

Truthfully, I'd say your best bet would be RPB's first point. Years ago, my Dad gave me his Ruger P95, and I carried it, plinked with it and competed with it for years. However, when Dad passed away, that gun immediately left my carry and HD rotation, unless it's an extreme emergency. I'll still use it, but I don't want it taken from me and kept by someone who doesn't recognize its value to ME. Plus, not carrying it minimizes its exposure to sweat and other wear and tear.

I realize I could sell/lose/destroy it and replace it extremely inexpensively...but that ain't the point.

[Oldgringo]

Do we not have an "OFF TOPIC" smiley?

I do now. Thanks

How about adding this to our smiley choices?

[The Annoyed Man]

If you must carry a .25 ACP caliber pistol, do not load it. For if you load it, you might use it. And if you shoot somebody with it, and they find out about it, they’re likely to be very upset with you.

He was right. Show her this quote.