U.S. Citizens Overseas Unfairly Restricted from Gun Own...

Paladin · Post by **Paladin** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:38 am

http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=76379
"Plaintiff in Dallas Federal Lawsuit Says U.S. Gun Control Laws Unconstitutional

U.S. Citizens Overseas Unfairly Restricted from Gun Ownership, Suit Says

11/15/2006 12:20:00 PM

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To: National Desk

Contact: Alan Gottlieb of the Second Amendment Foundation, 425-454-7012, Bill Mateja of Fish & Richardson P.C., 214-747-5070, or Alan Gura of Gura & Possessky PLLC, 703-835-9085

DALLAS, Nov. 15 /U.S. Newswire/ -- A United States citizen who now lives in Great Britain has joined with the country's leading gun owner rights organization in a federal lawsuit that says nonresident citizens are unfairly being targeted by existing laws that restrict gun ownership to those who live in the U.S.

Attorneys William B. Mateja, a principal in the Dallas and Washington, D.C., offices of Fish & Richardson P.C., and Alan Gura of Alexandria, Va.'s Gura & Possessky PLLC, filed the federal claim today on behalf of London, England, resident Maxwell Hodgkins and the Bellevue, Wash.-based Second Amendment Foundation.

Hodgkins, a 31-year-old real estate broker, is asking for a legal injunction that would prohibit federal officials from enforcing several "vague and ambiguous" gun control statutes. A Dallas native, Hodgkins is an avid gun collector and sportsman who legally owns and stores firearms in the U.S. and holds related permits for weapons possession and concealment.

Mateja previously served in the current Bush Administration as senior counsel to the U.S. Deputy Attorney General. Among other duties, he oversaw the Justice Department's violent crime efforts, including the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, and President Bush's Project Safe Neighborhood. Prior to that, he served as lead counsel in the notable Second Amendment case U.S. v. Timothy Joe Emerson.

The statutes in question ban the receipt, sale and purchase of firearms by U.S. citizens who claim legal residency outside the U.S. Expatriates cannot buy guns, and while they can receive guns for "lawful sporting purposes," they cannot do so for lawful self-defense while visiting the U.S. The suit claims that these laws violate the Second and Fifth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution. Although Hodgkins has not been arrested or prosecuted, his attorneys say he could face federal charges should he attempt to access his guns in the U.S.

"These laws serve no useful purpose," says Gura. "If Mr. Hodgkins may safely have a gun for target practice or hunting, he can certainly have a gun for other lawful purposes."

Alan Gottlieb, founder and vice president of the Second Amendment Foundation, says: "The firearms rights of American citizens do not become null and void simply because an individual lives in another country. There is no public safety rationale for laws or regulations that prohibit law-abiding citizens from exercising their rights while they are on American soil. We cannot allow a legal environment to exist where the exercise of a civil right by an American citizen anywhere in the United States is conditional to that person's country of residence."

The Second Amendment Foundation provides education, research, publishing and legal action focusing on the constitutional right to privately own and possess firearms, and the consequences of gun control. The organization has more than 600,000 members and supporters nationwide.

http://www.usnewswire.com/"

AV8R · Post by **AV8R** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 1:35 pm

Google up "Bill Mateja Second Amendment" for some interesting reads.

stevie_d_64 · Post by **stevie_d_64** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:17 pm

My knee-jerk reaction to this is to be wary of making headway for something like this...

Because the same could and certainly would be used against us in this country by a foreign entity to chip away our rights...

I mean thinking like a bad person, thats what I would do if I had the chance to get a dig on Americans...

The sole purpose if the international and U.N. small arms conferences is to force the U.S. to accept foreign treaties to remove our 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms...Period...

So at first, I am not so sure extending the envelope of protection to U.S. citizens living abroad (as much as I would totally approve of doing so), may not be a good idea, considering the tit for tat attitude of the international community wanting to do the opposite, but failing to this point to do the opposite to us within our own borders...

But I am still disseminating this information...

I would look to see what IANSA's (Rebecca Peters organization) response to this is...Not that they deserve to breath in our direction, but that would give us a good idea if my theory is full of beans or not...

Thane · Post by **Thane** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:58 pm

Steve:

I don't think he's trying to "chip away" at Britain's authority or lack thereof to prohibit him owning firearms in Britain...

It's that, when he's in America, he's denied the same rights we enjoy when we're in America, simply because his place of residence is abroad. Britain isn't the one denying him access to his own personal firearms - they're all here, in America. He wants full benefit of the 2nd Amendment for the duration of each stay in his land of citizenship, with the understanding that those rights do not continue past US borders and waters.

KBCraig · Post by **KBCraig** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:48 am

Exactly, Thane.

I was surprised to learn of this restriction on overseas U.S. citizens when I read it, but it does jibe with the process of buying a gun from an FFL: a valid ID, with a physical address of residence in the state of purchase, is required.

I once won a pistol at a Friends of the NRA banquet. When I went to collect my prize the next day at the sponsoring FFL, they couldn't accept my DL: the plastic in hand was expired by one month, and even though I had my renewal receipt in hand, my DL no longer proved that I was me, at least in the eyes of the ATF.

Anyhoo, back to the topic: It's ridiculous that a U.S. citizen living abroad, or a full-time RVer living on the road, is subject to second-class citizenship, and denied the right to buy, own, possess, and bear firearms.

Kevin

stevie_d_64 · Post by **stevie_d_64** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:00 pm

I now what y'all are saying...There was just something about this that hit that nerve before I had it figured out...It still kinda bugs me a little though...

But...

If there are ways to be permitted to have a firearm with you while living overseas, then sure, if its that important to you to do so, I'd press the issue...

But a foriegn country is just that, and they have their own laws and rules that we would have to abide by if we took a job and had to live there for any length of time...

I mean this is just how I'm seeing it now...If I still have the blinders on, its just because I see forcing another country that they have to allow our citizens in their country to do what they want, in regards to firearms, makes me somewhat cautious that that could rebound against us here...

I can certainly close the can of worms I opened if I am wrong...Somebodies just going to have to get me a lid for it...

Roger Howard · Post by **Roger Howard** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:41 pm

stevie_d_64 wrote:I now what y'all are saying...There was just something about this that hit that nerve before I had it figured out...It still kinda bugs me a little though...

But...

If there are ways to be permitted to have a firearm with you while living overseas, then sure, if its that important to you to do so, I'd press the issue...

But a foriegn country is just that, and they have their own laws and rules that we would have to abide by if we took a job and had to live there for any length of time...

I mean this is just how I'm seeing it now...If I still have the blinders on, its just because I see forcing another country that they have to allow our citizens in their country to do what they want, in regards to firearms, makes me somewhat cautious that that could rebound against us here...

I can certainly close the can of worms I opened if I am wrong...Somebodies just going to have to get me a lid for it...

I think you missed the point he was trying to make. It's not the gun ownership overseas he's talking about. It's his gun ownership here in the US as a Citizen living abroad. Because he does not reside here his rights are being taken away, in this country. He is still a US Citizen.

The law they are fighting says basically that even if you are a US Citizen that unless you reside in this country, you cannot own firearms in this country.

stevie_d_64 · Post by **stevie_d_64** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:26 pm

Sorry Roger...I get it now...I must be having a B-12 deficiency moment...

Sometimes it does take a sledge hammer to get me to catch on for some silly reason...

It is a quandry you'd be in if, lets say I worked for KBR, and have been in Iraq for 3 years, with only 2 weeks of leave a year...

I'm not sure if that qualifies for residency scrutiny or not...I have a friend who's been over there longer then even some of the rotating troops...She's due to come back this January, and I am not sure if she even retained a home of record here in the States during this time...

I'm sure she'll be fine, but I am wondering if she had made a point about this issue, would she have been in the same situation???

I guess put yourself in these folks shoes, and see how you'd feel about it...

I know I'd probably be a one man riot...