Question about small airports...

JLaw · Post by **JLaw** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:24 pm

Does anyone know if Hooks airport in Tomball is 30.06 posted? I am planning on taking the truck to Hooks and parking near the hangers and watching the planes take off and land. I've done this many times in the past (pre-CHL days) but have never paid attention to the signage at the gates. The last time I was there, there was a gate off the road that leads to the back of the hanger area, and you could drive around the hangers to get a good parking spot to watch the planes. Since this area is accessible by anyone coming through the open gate, I take it this does not qualify as a "secured" area of an airport? Any input??

JLaw.

jimlongley · Post by **jimlongley** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:59 pm

I think the airport you are referring to is strictly General Aviation, rather than airline, and probably is considered unsecured.

A secured airport is usually a scheduled passenger carrier airport with metal detectors and xrays between the public side and the secured side.

MrDrummy · Post by **MrDrummy** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:38 pm

You get into trouble carrying (as per TX PC 46.03) "in or into a secured area of an airport."

Like Jim said, it's usually the area past the screeners. From what I remember in my class, we can carry anywhere in an airport, but just not into the "secured area."

Anyone please chime in and tell me if I'm reading and understanding wrong.

JLaw · Post by **JLaw** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:23 am

jimlongley wrote:I think the airport you are referring to is strictly General Aviation, rather than airline, and probably is considered unsecured.
A secured airport is usually a scheduled passenger carrier airport with metal detectors and xrays between the public side and the secured side.

You are correct, it is strictly GA, and there are no metal detectors or screeners.

JLaw

nitrogen · Post by **nitrogen** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:55 pm

JLaw wrote:
jimlongley wrote:I think the airport you are referring to is strictly General Aviation, rather than airline, and probably is considered unsecured.
A secured airport is usually a scheduled passenger carrier airport with metal detectors and xrays between the public side and the secured side.
You are correct, it is strictly GA, and there are no metal detectors or screeners.

JLaw

So what happens if you fly from a small airport like the one being discussed, to a larger one like Love Field?

Lucky45 · Post by **Lucky45** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:30 pm

What about when we are on Alert DEFCON 5 by Homeland security and they roll out those signs at the airport by the drop off and pick up areas? saying you are subject to search. I can't remember the wording right now.

seamusTX · Post by **seamusTX** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:38 pm

nitrogen wrote:So what happens if you fly from a small airport like the one being discussed, to a larger one like Love Field?

Arrivals are not secure. If you checked a firearm on a commercial flight, you can pick it up at baggage claim, and you're in the clear.

There may be some nuance of federal regulations that I'm not aware of; but at airports that do not receive international flights, arrivals are not considered a security risk.

- Jim

Lucky45 · Post by **Lucky45** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:47 pm

I just looked up the law. here it is:

PC Â§46.03
A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(a)(5) in or into a secured area of an airport.
(c)(2) "Secured area" means an area of an airport terminal building
to which access is controlled by the inspection of persons and property
under federal law.

So do they mean just inside the terminal or does that area of the terminal building include where they set up their sign at the passenger pickup section???????

Hmmmmm.

nitrogen · Post by **nitrogen** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:13 pm

seamusTX wrote:
nitrogen wrote:So what happens if you fly from a small airport like the one being discussed, to a larger one like Love Field?
Arrivals are not secure. If you checked a firearm on a commercial flight, you can pick it up at baggage claim, and you're in the clear.

There may be some nuance of federal regulations that I'm not aware of; but at airports that do not receive international flights, arrivals are not considered a security risk.

- Jim

MAybe I wasn't clear enough. Let's say i'm flying my Piper Meridian (I WISH)from a small, uncontrolled airport, then land at Love Field. Do they make most small private craft at big airports land at a "non secure" field, or would I be allowed to land where all the other aircraft are, walk into the terminal with my gun?

jimlongley · Post by **jimlongley** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:31 pm

nitrogen wrote:
seamusTX wrote:
nitrogen wrote:So what happens if you fly from a small airport like the one being discussed, to a larger one like Love Field?
Arrivals are not secure. If you checked a firearm on a commercial flight, you can pick it up at baggage claim, and you're in the clear.

There may be some nuance of federal regulations that I'm not aware of; but at airports that do not receive international flights, arrivals are not considered a security risk.

- Jim
MAybe I wasn't clear enough. Let's say i'm flying my Piper Meridian (I WISH)from a small, uncontrolled airport, then land at Love Field. Do they make most small private craft at big airports land at a "non secure" field, or would I be allowed to land where all the other aircraft are, walk into the terminal with my gun?

I'll try to cover both this and the previous post in one answer.

First of all, the GA portion of Love Field is separate and distinct from the non-GA, so you really can't just land your Beech Bonanza (even with the $165.00 fee) at Love Field and enter the terminal, you would attract the attention of a variety of people who would object.

The "secured area" means that portion that is beyond the controlled access. At most "public" airports (as opposed to GA) this would be the other side of the metal detectors and controlled access doors. Baggage claim is in the unsecured area, as a rule, and thus you COULD pick up your bag and get your gun out and put it on (and indeed I myself have done this and know of others who have - a quick trip into the restroom to get the gun out and holstered and concealed.)

I don't know what sign in the passenger pickup section you might be referring to, but that would not constitute "secured area" in any way that I know of.

JLaw · Post by **JLaw** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:31 pm

nitrogen wrote:So what happens if you fly from a small airport like the one being discussed, to a larger one like Love Field?

I'm not flying anywhere, but aviation is a dream of mine. I spend hours flying flight similators and enjoy sitting by the hangers watching all the GA aircraft take off and land. Take a scanner and tune into the tower frequencies, that makes it really fun!

My only area of concern was taking a concealed weapon onto airport property, assuming that Hooks airport is not 30.06 posted.

But the question nitrogen asks does spark a bit of interest.

JLaw

Lucky45 · Post by **Lucky45** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:02 pm

Hey nitrogen;
I'm sorry but my comments earlier were in general terms about airports, not specifically small ones.

jim wrote:

I don't know what sign in the passenger pickup section you might be referring to, but that would not constitute "secured area" in any way that I know of.

Hey jim,
I'm talking about at Intercontinental where you park your car and wait for wife to walk out from baggage claim.
I always fly out of GBush IAH, cause I usually go international. Only use Hobby once to fly out. After 9/11, and the new threat levels; they would always put up some bright yellow signs on wooden posts saying it was a SECURED AREA and you were subject to search. I have flown numerous times since 9/11 and have seen it regularly outside the baggage claims area regularly.
Even last week, picked mom from airport and they have yellow signs posted on walls saying words to that effect about searching vehicle.

Those that fly in/out often know that before 9/11 you could park your cark there in a spot run inside and check to see if your family had arrived and was picking up bags or whatever.
NOW, you can't even turn off your engine (just kidding), but you can't leave your car, or it will be towed etc.

Anyone that has been to IAH, chime in correct me if i'm wrong. Or if you know what i'm talking about those sign they set up when we have different threat levels.

P.S. When is the last time we have a change in threat level???? Now it is LIQUIDS???? Hmmmmmmm

Lucky45 · Post by **Lucky45** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:03 am

Also,
under federal law, according to FAA

FAR Title 49: Transportation
PART 1540â€”CIVIL AVIATION SECURITY: GENERAL RULES
Subpart Aâ€”General
Â§ 1540.5

Secured area means a portion of an airport, specified in the airport security program, in which certain security measures specified in part 1542 of this chapter are carried out. This area is where aircraft operators and foreign air carriers that have a security program under part 1544 or 1546 of this chapter enplane and deplane passengers and sort and load baggage and any adjacent areas that are not separated by adequate security measures.

Sterile area means a portion of an airport defined in the airport security program that provides passengers access to boarding aircraft and to which the access generally is controlled by TSA, or by an aircraft operator under part 1544 of this chapter or a foreign air carrier under part 1546 of this chapter, through the screening of persons and property.

Some more thoughts for discussion.

jimlongley · Post by **jimlongley** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:12 am

Hey jim,
I'm talking about at Intercontinental where you park your car and wait for wife to walk out from baggage claim.

Then if the signs are saying it's a "secured area" the signs are wrong.

Love Field puts up 30.05 signs and adds verbage that says they apply to CHLs also - just because the signs are there doesn't make them right.

OTOH, if you are on airport property and they feel like searching your car or person, they will probably find a "legal" justification to do so.

Lucky45 · Post by **Lucky45** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:39 am

Love Field puts up 30.06 signs and adds verbage that says they apply to CHLs also - just because the signs are there doesn't make them right.

Jim,
Are you saying that Love Fields has signs up that prevent you from entering the terminal building carrying?