Employer policy opinion

[TxFire]

What is your opinion of the below listed excerpt from an employee directive as it would relate to a CHL holder?


No employee, while on duty, is allowed to clean, carry, utilize, or possess any type of firearm and/or other prohibited weapons including but not limited to: switchblade knives, boot knives, or double edged knives in violation of local, state or federal law excepting the specific circumstances outlined below:

[txinvestigator]

What is your opinion of the below listed excerpt from an employee directive as it would relate to a CHL holder?


No employee, while on duty, is allowed to clean, carry, utilize, or possess any type of firearm and/or other prohibited weapons including but not limited to: switchblade knives, boot knives, or double edged knives in violation of local, state or federal law excepting the specific circumstances outlined below:

It reads that you cannot have any of those that would be in violation of the law to carry. That means carrying a handgun under a CHL is not prohibited by THAT policy, as carrying under a CHL is not in violation of a local, state or federal law.

[kauboy]

You will be fired, but can't be arrested or charged with anything.(if you have a CHL that is)

The law is finite on giving "notice" and this just isn't it AT ALL!

I am curious about the "circumstances outlined below".

EDIT: TXI beats me to it everytime

[DustinB]

I'm no law expert but given that it does state, as said, anything prohibited by law. You may be fired, but would likely have something in your favor to take it to court for wrongful termination, but please correct me if I am wrong.

[kauboy]

In Texas, you can be fired for no reason whatsoever. I think the only recourse against it is if you can prove race, gender, age, etc. discrimination.

[TxFire]

I am aware that in Texas you can be fired for any reason or lack of due to the "at will" status of employment. I was really questioning how YOU read the stated policy and weather YOU felt it applied to CHL's. I know my answer.

What brings this up is that I was attempting to clear up what I felt was a mispercection of what the Directive says this morning and was curious what other might say. I also believe that what it says and what the Employer thinks it says are two separate things.

As to "circumstances outlined below" , that out lines the type of acceptable knives and employees whom may carry a firearm due to their LEO status. I left it out because it did not apply to the area I was questioning.

[casselthief]

I think regardless, you probably shouldn't be packing at work.
in your case at the firehouse, at mine, the hospital.

course, I also work around a big flippin' Magnet, and it'd try to hang on to any masta-blasta that got near it!!

unless you're a truck driver, then you should def have your hand-cannon with you.

[jimlongley]

The policy appears to me to state that knives in violation of the law are prohibited, firearms are covered in the introductory sentence.

I find myself wondering which law they intend to "enforce" as TX law about what constitutes an illegal knife is considerably more lenient than federal law.

Vague.

[nitrogen]

I think regardless, you probably shouldn't be packing at work.
in your case at the firehouse, at mine, the hospital.

Why shouldn't he? Assuming he's talking about the firehouse, I don't see a reason why he shouldn't be armed if it's legal for him to be.

EDIT: Unless a previous paragraph mentions that firearms are prohibited at work, I take that to mean that as long as it's legal under local, state, or federal law for you to carry, you may carry. The fact they mention cleaning, etc, makes me think their intention is to ban firearms, but the way its written doesn't seem to back that up.

For example, look at what the firefighters in England sometimes have to deal with:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2409513.stm

Police had to disperse a crowd which attacked firefighters when they tried to put out a bonfire in Merseyside.

In a separate incident, a £150,000 fire engine was badly damaged when it was pelted with bricks by youths.

The crew of the engine had been lured into an alley by the gang's fake 999 call.

(999/112= 911 in the UK in case you didn't know.)

[Mike1951]

I find myself wondering which law they intend to "enforce" as TX law about what constitutes an illegal knife is considerably more lenient than federal law.

With the exception of TSA airline restrictions, I wasn't even aware of federal regulations about knives.

Please elaborate and, if possible, provide the statutes.

Thanks,

[KRM45]

I also believe that what it says and what the Employer thinks it says are two separate things.

This is the only thing in there I'm sure of...

[Roger Howard]

unless you're a truck driver, then you should def have your hand-cannon with you.

There are no laws prohibiting truck drivers from carrying unless given a proper 30.06 by the company.

[ElGato]

not being a laywer I would be concerned about how the '' and / or '' effect's the meaning.????

[jimlongley]

I find myself wondering which law they intend to "enforce" as TX law about what constitutes an illegal knife is considerably more lenient than federal law.

With the exception of TSA airline restrictions, I wasn't even aware of federal regulations about knives.

Please elaborate and, if possible, provide the statutes.

Thanks,

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 930 Prev | Next

§ 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
(e)
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).
(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term “Federal facility� means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
(2) The term “dangerous weapon� means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length.
(3) The term “Federal court facility� means the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.
(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.

As such a knife less than 2.5" is not considered a weapon, whereas in TX the length is 5.5".

In some states you can possess a switchblade if you are hunting, but how do you get it there, or get one in the first place?

In TX you may not possess a switchblade, except if you happen to be a knife dealer, but of course who are you going to sell them to?

[Mike1951]

I had earlier searched the CFR's, thinking it would be included there. All I found pertained to carry on military bases.

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—...............

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

Isn't this the argument used by the PRO side of the infamous 'Post Office Carry' debate?

I always have on me at least one knife with a 3 1/2-4" blade. I guess this makes me a felon everytime I visit the Post Office. I would be a lot more likely to be spotted pulling out and using my over-length blade than for anyone to spot my concealed carry in a prohibited area.

I've always felt Texas' knife laws were too restrictive. I have several knives with a blade over 5 1/2" that I can probably get away with when hunting but I don't wear them in public.

But I made it 55 years without ever hearing of Federal knife laws.