NJ: Subzero tolerance in school

[seamusTX]

A caller to Tom Gresham's "Gun Talk" radio show 1-2-2011 said that his 12-year-old son had a photo of himself (the boy) holding an AR-15 on his cell phone. The boy had been shooting under his father's supervision.

A teacher at school saw the photo and sent the boy to the principal's office. The police were called and questioned the boy. The police then questioned the boy's mother. They did not contact the father.

Ultimately no charges were filed and the boy was not subject to disciplinary action.

Audio here, starting around 34:00: http://traffic.libsyn.com/guntalk/110102guntalkA.mp3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



I wonder about the cops questioning minors in a situation that could result in criminal charges. I know this stuff varies by state and is subject to SCOTUS rulings that are difficult to reconcile (i.e., confusing).

- Jim

[PUCKER]

Didn't listen to the audio, but if I was the father, I think I'd be questioning the teacher, the principal, the police, etc...well, you get the idea...

[seamusTX]

I don't think you win easily with this kind of thing. If you annoy the school personnel they will take it out on the kid. I don't even want to think about what the police would do.

You either have to put the kid in a private school that is run by sane people, or run for the school board.

- Jim

[philip964]

Kids are allowed to have cell phones at school?

I did not think police officers were allowed to question minors without their parents permission or without a lawyer present.

[seamusTX]

Policies vary on both issues.

Some schools absolutely prohibit cell phones in class and will confiscate them. Others just require them to be shut off during class.

The caller did not say where the teacher saw the phone. Maybe it was outside of class—lunchroom or somewhere like that. I don't know.

- Jim

[PUCKER]

Jim - I believe that you've gotta stand up and not just take things when you (or our family) has been wronged. The more people sit back and live their lives in fear of whatever retribution, well, the more the bullying goes on, just my take/thoughts. YMMV.

[KRM45]

I hate to say it, but this doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Every time there is a school shooting, you hear the cries of "why didn't anyone do anything", or "somebody must have known". Here a teacher reported what they thought was suspicious, the police investigated, and it was found to be nothing.

Imagine if the teacher had said nothing, and the boy came in next week with his AR and shot the place up.

No harm, no foul. If they punished the boy for the picture I would have a problem.

[Chemist45]

KRM45 said:

No harm, no foul. If they punished the boy for the picture I would have a problem.

A young boy is sent to the principals office in front of the entire class.
He is made to wait there until the police arrive.
The entire school see him questioned by the police.
And you say no harm?
I disagree.

As to the suspicious circumstances of the kid having a picture of himself with a firearm...
Well lets just say that I can find equal suspicion with a kid who plays Grand Theft Auto.

[suthdj]

Just teach your kids to not speak to the police unless the parent is present. They do have the right to remain silent.

[SewTexas]

Problem is, these days, government school officials are now recognized as 'in loco parentis', this is why they can search lockers, etc, they may be able to sit in place of the parent during questioning IF the child doesn't say "I want my mom!".

Reason number 14893 to homeschool. (not a lawyer, just a homeschooler who knows a wee bit of too much)

[RECIT]

Getting sent to the principals office and calling in the campus police are two different things...I see both sides of the story too. There should have been a phone call to the boys parents letting them know that cell phones are not allowed in class/school and that material is inappropriate for school as well. No crime was committed so no need for campus police. Let the parents do whatever they want to the child when they get home. No further discipline is necessary on the schools part in my opinion.

[pbwalker]

I hate to say it, but this doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Every time there is a school shooting, you hear the cries of "why didn't anyone do anything", or "somebody must have known". Here a teacher reported what they thought was suspicious, the police investigated, and it was found to be nothing.

Imagine if the teacher had said nothing, and the boy came in next week with his AR and shot the place up.

No harm, no foul. If they punished the boy for the picture I would have a problem.

Should we question him on suspicion of drunk driving if he has a picture of a car? Question him on the possibility of stabbing someone is he has a picture of a Bowie knife?

[The Annoyed Man]

I hate to say it, but this doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Every time there is a school shooting, you hear the cries of "why didn't anyone do anything", or "somebody must have known". Here a teacher reported what they thought was suspicious, the police investigated, and it was found to be nothing.

Imagine if the teacher had said nothing, and the boy came in next week with his AR and shot the place up.

No harm, no foul. If they punished the boy for the picture I would have a problem.

Should we question him on suspicion of drunk driving if he has a picture of a car? Question him on the possibility of stabbing someone is he has a picture of a Bowie knife?

Aye, there's the rub...

[KRM45]

I hate to say it, but this doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Every time there is a school shooting, you hear the cries of "why didn't anyone do anything", or "somebody must have known". Here a teacher reported what they thought was suspicious, the police investigated, and it was found to be nothing.

Imagine if the teacher had said nothing, and the boy came in next week with his AR and shot the place up.

No harm, no foul. If they punished the boy for the picture I would have a problem.

Should we question him on suspicion of drunk driving if he has a picture of a car? Question him on the possibility of stabbing someone is he has a picture of a Bowie knife?

Well, I can't really see the connection between a 12 year old with a picture of a car and drunk driving, but sure I see no reason not to ask him about it. My point is simply that I believe it is appropriate for teachers and/or school resource officers to investigate suspicious circumstances. We may disagree on what constitutes a suspicious circumstance, but until school shootings are eliminated, these types of things will happen. In this particular situation the outcome seems appropriate.

[CompVest]

I too fail to see why a picture of a gun is suspicious.