legal shotgun.

[KBCraig]

Other shotshell-chambering handguns all have rifled barrels.

Some of them have microscope rifling, but it is there.

If your're planning on cutting down a shotgun, note that the BATmen have some interesting policies on measuring barrel length - they go from the breech face to the muzzle. In their eyes, any extension of the barrel to the rear of the breech face doesn't count when measuring for legal length. (Not the law, but their creative interpretation of it. Fighting it will suck up lots of $$$ in court.)

I'm not sure I'm reading you correctly. Are you saying that extensions to the muzzle end of the barrel don't count for barrel length?

So far as I've read in ATF rulings, permanent (welded or silver-soldered) muzzle extensions do count as part of the barrel length.

Let me check on it and get back to you, but meanwhile, if you have differing information, please post it.

Kevin

[carlson1]

I'm not sure I'm reading you correctly. Are you saying that extensions to the muzzle end of the barrel don't count for barrel length?

So far as I've read in ATF rulings, permanent (welded or silver-soldered) muzzle extensions do count as part of the barrel length.

Let me check on it and get back to you, but meanwhile, if you have differing information, please post it.

Kevin

This will be interesting. I was told the Flash Hidder on my Mini 14 did NOT count. That the barrel itself had to be 16.

[HankB]

If your're planning on cutting down a shotgun, note that the BATmen have some interesting policies on measuring barrel length - they go from the breech face to the muzzle. In their eyes, any extension of the barrel to the rear of the breech face doesn't count when measuring for legal length. (Not the law, but their creative interpretation of it. Fighting it will suck up lots of $$$ in court.)

I'm not sure I'm reading you correctly. Are you saying that extensions to the muzzle end of the barrel don't count for barrel length?

So far as I've read in ATF rulings, permanent (welded or silver-soldered) muzzle extensions do count as part of the barrel length.

Let me check on it and get back to you, but meanwhile, if you have differing information, please post it.

Kevin

What I was alluding to was the way the BAT men measure barrel length. If you stick a rod down the barrel until it hits the breech face, and measure to the muzzle, you need at least 18" for a shotgun to be legal. I've read that some people have removed a barrel from, say, a pump shotgun, measured 18" from the receiver end, cut it down . . . and ended up with something too short to satisfy the BATmen. The LAW doesn't spell out HOW to measure a barrel, so this non-lawyer believes a plausible argument can be made before a jury that the person who did so WAS complying with the LAW . . . but legal fees are likely to be high.

As far as muzzle extensions . . . I believe that they count as barrel length if they're permanently attached. So an extended screw-in turkey choke on a shotgun wouldn't count unless it were welded on or put on with a blind pin. As for soldering . . . maybe yes, maybe no. During the bad days of the AWB the BATmen wanted muzzle brakes on threaded barrels to be attached via blind pin, welding, or silver solder with a minimum melting point of 1100 F. I don't know if they've issued a rule or opinion on shotguns.

As for the muzzle brake on a Mini-14, note that some AR15 rifle variations are LEGALLY sold with 11.5" barrels - they have a permanently attached 5.5" muzzle brake. So if you took a Mini-14 with a 13" barrel and permanently attached a 3" flash hider, you'd be good when you finished . . . but between the time you cut the barrel to 13" and completed the permanent attachment of the flash hider, you'd be committing a felony.

Again, I'm no lawyer . . . but ain't the law grand?

[KBCraig]

What I was alluding to was the way the BAT men measure barrel length. If you stick a rod down the barrel until it hits the breech face, and measure to the muzzle, you need at least 18" for a shotgun to be legal. I've read that some people have removed a barrel from, say, a pump shotgun, measured 18" from the receiver end, cut it down . . . and ended up with something too short to satisfy the BATmen. The LAW doesn't spell out HOW to measure a barrel, so this non-lawyer believes a plausible argument can be made before a jury that the person who did so WAS complying with the LAW . . . but legal fees are likely to be high.

Actually, the CFR does define it:

27 CFR 179.11 ( . . . ) For the purposes of this definition the length of the barrel having an integral chamber(s) on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or breech block when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked.

Also worth noting is how overall length is measured:

The overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore.

In other words, if you stretch a tape from the muzzle to the toe of the stock, you might come up with 26", but if you measure parallel to the bore, it will be shorter than that, and could fall below the limit.

Kevin

[HankB]

Thank you for the info . . . but the law that restricted short-barreled shotguns was the National Firearms Act of 1934, which didn't spell out methods of measuring barrel length. I believe the CFR reference comes from the "Code of Federal Regulations" - making it a creation of unelected bureaucrats rather than a part of NFA '34, GCA'68, or any actual law that was explicitly voted on by the Congress and signed by the President.

That people are prosecuted all the time for violating "regulations" doesn't make it right, but my opinion won't keep you out of jail unless I happen to be on your jury.

[casselthief]

"Holy barrel lenght BatMan!!"