Muzzle flash with bullet?

[mreavis]

Iv seen multiple non +P .45's for the first 2 feet or so watching my roommate shoot his 1911.

Never been able to get my eye on a 9mm or rifle round though. I think they are moving a bit to fast for me to catch it.

[b322da]

So Elmo, does it seem to matter whether the target is a contrasting color or not for you to be able to see the bullet?

I have no vivid recollection of it making a difference, TAM, but your very good question has prompted me to give some thought to it.

In my earliest prior life I shot with the AMU, both military and NRA competition, which was, of course, black and white paper. My hold was at 6 o'clock, so if the bullet hit where it was supposed to hit it I would have had a black background when I saw it. Naturally, I will never admit to having had a white background ever-ever.

In my current old age, comfortably retired several times, I have of course transitioned to center bull hold for SD shooting, and I seldom use a black on white target because of this old timer's difficulty now in seeing the front sight with a black background. So it would appear to me, since now and then I still see the little fella', that the color of the background makes no difference.

Also, I really, in theory, should not see the target when the gun fires. I was always taught that the bullseye target should be just a fuzzy ball, bouncing around down there within my wobble zone, with my focus never straying from the front sight -- any tendency to move my focus back and forth between the front sight and the bullseye was not tolerated. When I rarely see the bullet now, as compared with "occasionally" years ago as a young lad, it is just a little momentary black spot in a background of flash and unburnt powder going off in all directions. If I was shooting at a bullseye target, the chance of seeing the bullet would likely be about the same whether the background at the time the gun fires was white, black or berm.

Of course it is a different ballgame for SD shooting, but I do occasionally whittle away at a bullseye target just for old times sake. It would be apparent that with my various carry weapons, both 1911s and revolvers, sighted in for center bull hold, the x-ring is at the very bottom of the black bullseye.

Elmo

[O6nop]

Edit: Oki, did a quickie. Assuming a 230gr .45ACP at 850 fps... the bullet would have moved about 28 feet for the duration the shutter was open

Also assuming that the bullet was already in motion when the shutter opened...

Oooooh, good point!

Could you explain... doesn't the muzzle flash occur after the bullet has left the barrel?

[Mastodon]

Thanks for the replies and info. I teach 8th grade science and all of my students know of my gun ownership and have seen pictures of the collection. They were amazed at the picture. It led into a discussion of Newton's Laws and forces that act upon us.

[MadMonkey]

1. Logically, one would think that it does, but there's commonly some leakage before the bullet exits as you might see in slo-mo videos (YouTube, etc) - but the issue of muzzle-flash doesn't have much to do with MadMonkey's point.

2. More relevant is his point about the bullet already moving: the shutter could have been already open for say, half the time even before ignition actually occurred - and the bullet would therefore only have moved 14 feet for the remaining duration that the shutter was open. We'd only see a full 28 feet if the bullet was already moving when the shutter was open and then closed.

3. Point I was trying to make is that, at that shutter-speed, it's very unlikely that the streak was the bullet itself.

Yep Nobody ever accused me of being smart, but I do have my moments every few months!

[AJ80]

Here are a couple of questions for some of you that may be more inclined to do the math and research than I am.
1. How long after ignition would it take for the muzzle flash to reach the diameter that it is in the photo?
2. Accounting for initial acceleration, how far would the bullet have traveled in the time determined from question number 1?

[dcphoto]

Here are a couple of questions for some of you that may be more inclined to do the math and research than I am.
1. How long after ignition would it take for the muzzle flash to reach the diameter that it is in the photo?
2. Accounting for initial acceleration, how far would the bullet have traveled in the time determined from question number 1?

1. There is no way to determine that, since the size of the muzzle flash depends on too many unknown variables. e.g. Type of powder used (burn speed and flash retardant), amount of powder, type of primer, length of barrel, muzzle velocity of the bullet, imperfections in the muzzle crown, etc.

2. Since #1 cannot be determined, neither can #2.

[shootthesheet]

What "shutter speed" on camera?

0.03333 second, according to the data in the jpg.

Someone else can do the math on this one - I'm having a sandwich

Edit: Oki, did a quickie. Assuming a 230gr .45ACP at 850 fps... the bullet would have moved about 28 feet for the duration the shutter was open.

PS - Tim - the year is set wrong on your camera.

Yep, it's 2011.