Target practice with the wife today, need some help...

[rmr1923]

My wife works in Kingwood and with the recent rash of "incidents" in that general area of town she wanted to get in some target practice this weekend. I got a good deal on a Beretta PX4 Storm subcompact 9mm a while back and bought it with the intention of using it as my EDC. My wife really liked the safety features of the gun, and since we were having trouble finding a handgun she was comfortable with decided that I'd find something different for myself to carry and she'd keep the Beretta (found an M&P 40c not too long ago from a fellow forum member which will be my EDC).

So this weekend was the first time my wife has shot the Beretta. I initially had her standing back about 20 feet shooting at a standard pistol target and she was hitting low-left about 6 inches from the center of the target. She grouped all of the shots within about 3 inches of one another, which I found impressive considering it was the first time she'd shot a handgun in over a year (and the first time shooting this gun), but instructed her to focus on maintaining a steady grip and "squeeze" the trigger rather than "pulling" it. My thoughts were that she was jerking as she pulled the trigger (in anticipation of the recoil) and it was causing her to hit low and to the left. We were alternating turns shooting, her with the Beretta and me with my M&P, and after about 100 rounds she was still hitting low and to the left, so I decided to shoot it myself and low and behold, I was hitting the same spot she was. I had to aim at the upper-right area of the target to hit the bullseye so I figured either we're both jerking while pulling the trigger, or the sights are off. We shot a fairly wide variety of 9mm ammo - American Eagle, PMC, Winchester, and some reloads from TacticalAmmunition.com - and there didn't seem to be any variance with the different brands of ammo (not that I expected there to be, but I figured some might ask).

As far as I know these are the sights that came on the gun, I don't believe they're adjustable and there are no signs that would indicate the previous owner had messed with them in any way. Does anyone know if the sights on the PX4 can be adjusted, or should I take it to a gunsmith and have him check it out? I've been contemplating night sights anyway, but some recent unexpected medical expenses have prevented me from having them put on both of our handguns as I originally planned. She wants to keep this gun in the center console of her car and I hate the thought of her needing it and not being able to hit where she's aiming if a threat is approaching her car while she's at a red light and unable to get away (or some other similar scenario).


On another note, I've officially converted an "anti" into a gun lover (I guess a gun "skeptic" would be a more accurate description, she's never really been anti-guns, just had an irrational fear of them). She can't wait to get out and shoot again, we're planning on at least 2 trips a month to the range and (hopefully) her taking a CHL class by the end of the year.

[RPB]

I had to adjust what part of my finger is on the trigger on a couple guns I own
This may or may not help:
http://www.homegunsafety.com/images/cor ... _chart.gif" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Beiruty]

20 yrd is too far for PX4 Sub compact with 3" barrel. I have one and I only shoot at max of 15 yrds. I shoot my 3.8" P30 at 20 yrds and that is a bit on the max side too.

As for shooting left and low, maybe you need to use the middle of the first finger pad.

[rmr1923]

20 yrd is too far for PX4 Sub compact with 3" barrel. I have one and I only shoot at max of 15 yrds. I shoot my 3.8" P30 at 20 yrds and that is a bit on the max side too.

As for shooting left and low, maybe you need to use the middle of the first finger pad.

We were shooting at 20 ft, not 20 yards. I doubt I could hit a B27 target at 20 yards with that gun, let alone a target printed up on 8x11 paper

It's possible that the sights are actually off - but get a known good shooter to shoot it and see what results they get; there's no way of telling otherwise.

Generally-speaking (a lot depends on the length of the trigger), a right-handed shooter will push the rounds low and left if they have a slight flinch:

Low because they're pushing down a little, instinctively trying to stop the recoil before the gun even fires.
Left because their trigger-finger is on the right-hand side of the trigger - and it pushes the muzzle slightly to the left as they pull the trigger.

That's what I'm thinking of doing next, getting someone else to shoot it and see what results they get. At first I was kinda ticked off that I couldn't hit the bullseye so I put the safety on and pulled out my M&P and hit the bullseye 3 times in a row from the distance I was standing at (maybe 25 feet max at that point), but the single-action trigger pull on the PX4 is MUCH lighter and shorter than the double-action M&P. I shoot with the wife's oldest brother every now and then and he's a pretty good shot, I'll have him shoot it next and maybe shoot it from a bench rest to see what results we get.

This may or may not help:
http://www.homegunsafety.com/images/cor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... _chart.gif

Thanks, I knew I'd seen a printable target labeled like that but couldn't find it the other day when I went online to print some out.

[CompVest]

double-action M&P

For what it is worth, the M&P is a safe action not a double action.

Out of curiosity did your wife shoot the M&P? If she did, did she have the same low left issues?

[rmr1923]

double-action M&P

For what it is worth, the M&P is a safe action not a double action.

Out of curiosity did your wife shoot the M&P? If she did, did she have the same low left issues?

sorry, thought it was a double-action. i'm still fairly new to handguns so i'm still learning the proper terminology.

and she didn't shoot the M&P, she asked if it would "kick" more than the 9mm and when i said yes, she said she didn't want to try it just yet. that's why i decided to shoot the two guns back-to-back to see if i had the same problems hitting the bullseye (which i did).

forgot to mention this in my first post, but after about 50 rounds i wanted to see if she was jerking her hand when she pulled the trigger, so i grabbed both magazines and loaded a round in one of them but put the empty mag in the gun and racked the slide back as if i were chambering a round. i told her that she had one bullet and i wanted her to try to hit the bullseye, she didn't know the gun was unloaded and when she pulled the trigger she jerked REAL bad. so that's when i told her to try to keep her grip steady, not too firm, and "squeeze" the trigger rather than "pull", hoping it would correct the low-left issue. then when she got through another 50 or so rounds is when i decided to shoot it myself and saw that even i wasn't able to hit the center of the target (i'd been hitting roughly 3" groups with the M&P up to that point, all in the center of the target).

i'm planning on making a trip to the range wednesday after work (half price range fees) and put about 50-100 rounds through the Beretta again to see if i'm having the same issue. hopefully it's just a case of needing to correct our shooting mechanics and not a problem with the sights.

[shootthesheet]

I was doing the same thing until I rotated my left (support) hand down so my fingers were facing the ground more and my thumb was further forward. It straightened my left arm so I would have an even extension of both arms.

I also found I didn't have to hold as tight of a grip with either hand and could isolate my trigger finger to pull the trigger without much effort. My grip is much looser than it was but more of the surface of my off side hand is in contact with the grip of the gun so the recoil is controlled more. It is the contact that controls the recoil and not how tight my grip is. Rotating my left hand also helps with short grip guns because it puts more of my hand on lower part of the gun to make up for less left side grip area to make contact with.

[function12]

I would say do some dry fire practice. 200-300 dry fires before she goes to the range next time.

[rmr1923]

I would say do some dry fire practice. 200-300 dry fires before she goes to the range next time.

i agree, that's definitely something she can practice when she has spare time. she also needs to work on racking the slide back, sometimes she's not able to get the slide all the way back when chambering the first round.

and Compvest, thanks for the info. sometime within the next month or two she said she'd like to take your course in Conroe, and if you have room i think my mom and her mom may join in as well. apparently my mom used to shoot with my dad several years ago and is interested in a refresher course, and my mother-in-law came outside while we were shooting this weekend and emptied a few mags into the dirt a few feet in front of the target

[Piney]

[quote="rmr1923
i agree, that's definitely something she can practice when she has spare time. she also needs to work on racking the slide back, sometimes she's not able to get the slide all the way back when chambering the first round.
:[/quote]

R had (has) difficulty racking the slide on her pistol. She wanted to "baby" it back and forward. I tell her to grab hold like she's irritated at it, pull it back and let it go-- don't ease it back or forward. She said she was concerned that she'd damage it
She'll see this post and rack it just fine LOL

Dry firing it will also help get that feel and the motions more natural.

[Divided Attention]

Quick suggestion for what it is worth, but it helped with my sight picture recovery time.. put a spent casing on the top of the slide to do dry fires. Shows you just how much you are moving without recoil...

[rmr1923]

Quick suggestion for what it is worth, but it helped with my sight picture recovery time.. put a spent casing on the top of the slide to do dry fires. Shows you just how much you are moving without recoil...

yep, i saw this on a show a week or two ago and planned to try that as well. i think what i'll probably do is have her practice with dry fires and set up the camera so she can see what she's doing and what needs to be corrected. she did tell me this evening that she wants to shoot my M&P, just to see if she has the same issues trying to hit the center of the target.

[rmr1923]

R had (has) difficulty racking the slide on her pistol. She wanted to "baby" it back and forward. I tell her to grab hold like she's irritated at it, pull it back and let it go-- don't ease it back or forward. She said she was concerned that she'd damage it
She'll see this post and rack it just fine LOL

yeah what i noticed is that she has a fairly weak grip on the gun with her right hand and applies all of the force with her left hand, i'm trying to get her to push forward with her right hand as she's pulling back with the left in a quicker motion. then again the presence of the external safety switch is making it difficult for her to get a real good grip on the slide, but it seems to be getting easier and more natural the more she works on it.