not allowing students with weapons to attend his classe

[Oldgringo]

Looked like an advertisement for his ambulance chasin' PI firm to me. Take another class from someone else or take it over the internet. IOW, boycott him.

Work with the system instead of against it.

[suthdj]

"Not in my classroom", I'm sorry I believe my tax dollar and registration fee's make that my class room more then his.

[baldeagle]

This idiot saying he will illegally prevent otherwise lawful students from entering his class while legally carrying a gun is NO DIFFERENT than saying he will not allow blacks at his lunch counter.

The civil rights movement isn't dead, it's just been turned upside down and dropped by libtards when they disagree with the particular civil right being demanded.

Allowing public universities to "opt out" of campus carry is like allowing public universities to "opt out" of racial integration.

Or ROTC?

[RoyGBiv]

I sent Mr. Cantor the following... (credit to AustinRealtor)
I'll let you know if I get a reply..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mr Cantor,
I didn't see a way to comment directly on/from your blog, so, here's an email..

Regarding: http://www.dmcantor.com/blog/2011/03/30 ... ience.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What do I think?

I think you would have a tough time showing me where a prohibition on skateboards, calculators or cell phones would be a violation of my rights. I hope I don't have to remind you what document guarantees my right to bear arms.

Banning a skateboard...? your decision..

However, I'd argue that banning a licensed CHL holder from an ASU class is legally equivalent to banning a black man from a lunch counter.

Regards,
XXXX RGB XXXX
Fort Worth, Texas

[srothstein]

I think the professor has an interesting point, and it might be one we need to consider for Texas' campus carry laws. As a general rule, the professor controls his classroom, much like the judge controls his courtroom. He can make rules on such thinks as skateboards or calculators or cell phones. The question of weapons has not yet come up because they were generally banned on campus, both by the law and by the school rules.

But, if the law forbids the school from making a rule about weapons, does that apply to the individual teacher? He might, just might, be within the letter of the law. I admit it is not within the spirit of the law at all, but it might be within the letter which is what counts. And while we see this as a civil rights issue, so far the law (including our proposed law) and the courts have not recognized carrying weapons outside the home as being within our rights.

I agree that his stated fear of guns (not faked BTW) won't fly because it is not a recognized diagnosis in the DSM. If he does get a doctor to certify him as neurotic (I think that would be the correct diagnosis using the unreasonable fear as a symptom), the application of the ADA would be an interesting conflict between the state and federal laws. Of course, that only requires a reasonable accommodation, such as making all of his classes on-line only.

Overall, I think he has come up with an interesting and plausible argument that might work for a little while. Of course, unless he is tenured, I would then fire him for his lack of critical thinking, a serious flaw in college professors that renders them incompetent, IMHO.

And someone needs to correct him (though I am sure he won't listen) about the stats on "professionals" vs "amateurs" hitting the wrong target in real life shootings. And while you are at it, you might point out that the cops in the street know they can tell who the BG is, even if the administrators don't have any faith in the ability of their own men.

[cbr600]

deleted

[Oldgringo]

This idiot saying he will illegally prevent otherwise lawful students from entering his class while legally carrying a gun is NO DIFFERENT than saying he will not allow blacks at his lunch counter.

The civil rights movement isn't dead, it's just been turned upside down and dropped by libtards when they disagree with the particular civil right being demanded.

Allowing public universities to "opt out" of campus carry is like allowing public universities to "opt out" of racial integration.

Or ROTC?

I agree professors should not be able to ban students who are ROTC cadets from their class, any more than they should be able to ban students who are Hindu or work at Starbucks.

Who is paying whom?

[chasfm11]

This idiot saying he will illegally prevent otherwise lawful students from entering his class while legally carrying a gun is NO DIFFERENT than saying he will not allow blacks at his lunch counter.

The civil rights movement isn't dead, it's just been turned upside down and dropped by libtards when they disagree with the particular civil right being demanded.

Allowing public universities to "opt out" of campus carry is like allowing public universities to "opt out" of racial integration.

Or ROTC?

I agree professors should not be able to ban students who are ROTC cadets from their class, any more than they should be able to ban students who are Hindu or work at Starbucks.

Who is paying whom?

You don't understand. The prevailing thought pattern on the part of professors like this is that they are "entitled" - to their pay, to a job for life regardless of their actions. They are completely immune from any consequences for anything. They may even talk about not injecting their own political bent into their actions but many of them don't even have the pretense of being unbiased. They are not their to serve the students, they are their to provide guidance to wayward souls.

A recent experience at the UT-Arlington campus carry forum confirmed for me that things haven't changed. The moderator spent the better part of the forum talking down to the attendees, providing his own views devoid of any factual support and was backed up in person by the President of that institution. His message can be condensed into a single sentence "listen to me - I know what is good for your." I want to throw up.

[Jasonw560]

What did Freud say? That someone with a fear of weapons is sexually and emotionally immature?

Skateboards-distracting, big, get in the way of other students.

Cell phones- can have the answers to tests on them, worried about texting in class and not learning.

Calculators- figuring out how much money they have left over from their parents that week for beer and other stuff.

Concealed handguns- can save people's lives, won't know a student has it until it's needed.

Yeah, I can see how it fits in.

[The Annoyed Man]

I think the professor has an interesting point, and it might be one we need to consider for Texas' campus carry laws. As a general rule, the professor controls his classroom, much like the judge controls his courtroom. He can make rules on such thinks as skateboards or calculators or cell phones. The question of weapons has not yet come up because they were generally banned on campus, both by the law and by the school rules.

But, if the law forbids the school from making a rule about weapons, does that apply to the individual teacher? He might, just might, be within the letter of the law. I admit it is not within the spirit of the law at all, but it might be within the letter which is what counts. And while we see this as a civil rights issue, so far the law (including our proposed law) and the courts have not recognized carrying weapons outside the home as being within our rights.

I agree that his stated fear of guns (not faked BTW) won't fly because it is not a recognized diagnosis in the DSM. If he does get a doctor to certify him as neurotic (I think that would be the correct diagnosis using the unreasonable fear as a symptom), the application of the ADA would be an interesting conflict between the state and federal laws. Of course, that only requires a reasonable accommodation, such as making all of his classes on-line only.

Overall, I think he has come up with an interesting and plausible argument that might work for a little while. Of course, unless he is tenured, I would then fire him for his lack of critical thinking, a serious flaw in college professors that renders them incompetent, IMHO.

And someone needs to correct him (though I am sure he won't listen) about the stats on "professionals" vs "amateurs" hitting the wrong target in real life shootings. And while you are at it, you might point out that the cops in the street know they can tell who the BG is, even if the administrators don't have any faith in the ability of their own men.

Nevertheless, there may be some legal challenge to my actions. Should it be successful, I have another plan, and I am recommending both proposals to others.

I plan to register a disability with the university: an uncontrollable fear of guns in public places.

This didn't used to be a disability that affected me, but I will make it clear that I cannot function properly in my role as a teacher and researcher in the presence of firearms on campus. I will request that students be informed that because of this, only those not carrying weapons can register for my classes.

The man is a weanie. I agree that his is a novel approach - which just goes to show that you can see or learn something new everyday - but I doubt he could make it stick.

First, as the OP pointed out, how on earth is he going to know? His "control of the classroom" stops where the student's right to not be subject to unreasonable search and seizure begins - which by the way, only applies to LEOs. Regular citizens have NO right to search another citizen and seize anything from them. THAT is called "Robbery," and it is everywhere against the law. The "good professor" is not an LEO, and therefore he has no lawful authority to conduct any kind of search, reasonable or unreasonable.

Second, he does not own the property, nor does he make policy on behalf of the owners - who happen to be the taxpayers who send their kids to his employer's school. Therefore, he is not lawfully empowered to give proper notice to anybody who is carrying a gun... ...if he could prove they have one. See "First."

The man is a weanie, and he is intellectually sub-standard. How did he ever land a teaching job?

[b322da]

I think the professor has an interesting point, and it might be one we need to consider for Texas' campus carry laws. As a general rule, the professor controls his classroom, much like the judge controls his courtroom. He can make rules on such things as skateboards or calculators or cell phones. SNIP

As usual, when Steve speaks, I suggest we listen, lest we lose sight of the real issue by cluttering it up with the so typical ranting while preaching to our choir here, and in the process possibly harming our mutual cause.

Let us not forget at whom the 2nd Amendment was directed. Does the 2nd Amendment constrain me as an individual?

Those leading our cause in Austin, and having made so much progress, have so far been mainly discreet, judicious and incremental, and have not gone out of their way to induce panic on the part of the general public, and I suggest that we take that lesson to heart. If the anti-gun forces do not monitor this forum for evidence of our intentions they are not as smart as I think many of them are.

Elmo

[chasfm11]

I think the professor has an interesting point, and it might be one we need to consider for Texas' campus carry laws. As a general rule, the professor controls his classroom, much like the judge controls his courtroom. He can make rules on such things as skateboards or calculators or cell phones. SNIP

As usual, when Steve speaks, I suggest we listen, lest we lose sight of the real issue by cluttering it up with the so typical ranting while preaching to our choir here, and in the process possibly harming our mutual cause.

Let us not forget at whom the 2nd Amendment was directed. Does the 2nd Amendment constrain me as an individual?

Those leading our cause in Austin, and having made so much progress, have so far been mainly discreet, judicious and incremental, and have not gone out of their way to induce panic on the part of the general public, and I suggest that we take that lesson to heart. If the anti-gun forces do not monitor this forum for evidence of our intentions they are not as smart as I think many of them are.

Elmo

Perhaps Steve is correct. To a point, a teacher must be able to control their class room environment so that a proper learning environment can be maintained. But as TAM has pointed out, that doesn't mean that they can carry that control to the point of dictatorship. If I don't act or appear in a manner that disrupts the class, the good professor cannot excuse me from attending, regardless of what his personal feelings are. He cannot ask me questions that infringe my personal freedoms. For example, if he asked at the beginning of each session, "anyone who is carrying a firearm, raise your hand", I'm not obligated to respond to him because his request does not trump the TPC which requires me to retain the confidentially of my weapon. He cannot examine me personally to see if he can detect a firearm on me. If, through some fluke of his scrutiny, he detected or thought he detected a weapon on me, he cannot require me to retire from the class, though I admit that such an incident might end up with campus security involved and mushroom out of control.

If you follow that logic, any public business owner could do the same. The teacher should have even less right to control a building that they don't own and don't control than the owner of a supermarket does.

I freely admit that this could be a dicey issue. As long as the Liberal professors do not acknowledge the existence of the Constitution and the rule of law as many of them don't, they can and have gotten away with far more than they should. Egregious behavior on the part of professors is seldom challenged and they become emboldened to push their envelope further and further. At some point, that has to stop and if reasonable dialogue and normal management control through the college or University doesn't accomplish it, an incident is going to happen. I recognize that the media would come down on the side of the professor who demanded that a student not be in his class with a gun but I won't back down because of that. Perhaps I've developed too much of a militant approach. I'm just tried of being walked over by those who shouldn't try.

[Texas Size 11]

I think the professor has an interesting point, and it might be one we need to consider for Texas' campus carry laws. As a general rule, the professor controls his classroom, much like the judge controls his courtroom. He can make rules on such thinks as skateboards or calculators or cell phones. The question of weapons has not yet come up because they were generally banned on campus, both by the law and by the school rules.

But, if the law forbids the school from making a rule about weapons, does that apply to the individual teacher? He might, just might, be within the letter of the law. I admit it is not within the spirit of the law at all, but it might be within the letter which is what counts. And while we see this as a civil rights issue, so far the law (including our proposed law) and the courts have not recognized carrying weapons outside the home as being within our rights.

I agree that his stated fear of guns (not faked BTW) won't fly because it is not a recognized diagnosis in the DSM. If he does get a doctor to certify him as neurotic (I think that would be the correct diagnosis using the unreasonable fear as a symptom), the application of the ADA would be an interesting conflict between the state and federal laws. Of course, that only requires a reasonable accommodation, such as making all of his classes on-line only.

Overall, I think he has come up with an interesting and plausible argument that might work for a little while. Of course, unless he is tenured, I would then fire him for his lack of critical thinking, a serious flaw in college professors that renders them incompetent, IMHO.

And someone needs to correct him (though I am sure he won't listen) about the stats on "professionals" vs "amateurs" hitting the wrong target in real life shootings. And while you are at it, you might point out that the cops in the street know they can tell who the BG is, even if the administrators don't have any faith in the ability of their own men.

Nevertheless, there may be some legal challenge to my actions. Should it be successful, I have another plan, and I am recommending both proposals to others.

I plan to register a disability with the university: an uncontrollable fear of guns in public places.

This didn't used to be a disability that affected me, but I will make it clear that I cannot function properly in my role as a teacher and researcher in the presence of firearms on campus. I will request that students be informed that because of this, only those not carrying weapons can register for my classes.

The man is a weanie. I agree that his is a novel approach - which just goes to show that you can see or learn something new everyday - but I doubt he could make it stick.

First, as the OP pointed out, how on earth is he going to know? His "control of the classroom" stops where the student's right to not be subject to unreasonable search and seizure begins - which by the way, only applies to LEOs. Regular citizens have NO right to search another citizen and seize anything from them. THAT is called "Robbery," and it is everywhere against the law. The "good professor" is not an LEO, and therefore he has no lawful authority to conduct any kind of search, reasonable or unreasonable.

Second, he does not own the property, nor does he make policy on behalf of the owners - who happen to be the taxpayers who send their kids to his employer's school. Therefore, he is not lawfully empowered to give proper notice to anybody who is carrying a gun... ...if he could prove they have one. See "First."

The man is a weanie, and he is intellectually sub-standard. How did he ever land a teaching job?

Book smart is a whole lot different than street smart...he doesn't seem to possess both skill sets.

[RPB]

Local control Ellis' press release
http://www.ellis.senate.state.tx.us/pr11/p033111a.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"If we are going to go down this road of more guns on campus, then we need to allow the students on a campus to make the choice for themselves.

Which students? the 17/18/19/20 year old kids who this does not affect, or the responsible adults 21 to 56 years old who are licensed?

In prison. Criminals outnumber guards, so should they take a total vote from that entire population on whether guards should be armed, or just ask the ones who could legally BE armed if they should or shouldn't be?

I'm pro-choice too .... allow me the freedom to choose whether to carry my 9mm or my .45 today.

[Burn]

I think the professor has an interesting point, and it might be one we need to consider for Texas' campus carry laws. As a general rule, the professor controls his classroom, much like the judge controls his courtroom. He can make rules on such thinks as skateboards or calculators or cell phones. The question of weapons has not yet come up because they were generally banned on campus, both by the law and by the school rules.

I agree. An interesting precedent would be whether a restaurant may refuse to serve a police officer who is legally carrying. Obviously the police officer is legally allowed to carry, but does that place a duty on a restaurant to serve them? I think there was something about this in the San Antonio area but I can't find the details.