Police Confront Broward Judge at Gunpoint

[tacticool]

If judges in Florida have the authority, it would be poetic justice for Judge Holmes to prohibit deputies from the Broward sheriffs department from carrying guns in her courtroom, even in uniform.

Who could blame her for feeling threatened by them?

[gigag04]

I would like to drag some of you along and dump you out in the middle of a burglary in progress call. It would really be eye opening. I've been in the judges shoes before: I was housesitting my u cow and aunts Victorian home and locked myself out. I went through a window with my friend who was helping me work on the house. Cops came, pointed guns, secured us, and then asked questions - all because a neighbor called it in. I had a sense of humor about it then and I was in high school.

A burglary of a habitation in progress is one of the hottest calls that drops regularly. Sometimes it's a good one, sometimes it's not. You don't know until the scene is secure.

Some questions - if the judge was so alarmed by the person outside why didn't she call police? What does attire have to do with anything? Could the family be held hostage in their own home, and suspects dress like the family to blend in? Is this an ambush and we're about to start taking rounds from the windows? Maybe someone is hiding in the home and the family is unaware?

Also Hoi - I disagree with your summary only because I've been in the situation before and I don't feel you give a fair shake to the responders.

TAM - I see your point on the apology deal. Depending on how inflammatory she may have been, I may have walked off and written something up later. Can't say without being there. That may be a fault in me though.


I'm also surprised to see people advocating that a government official use their office and authority to execute personal revenge. That would be a shame for either party and lower people's already skeptical view of the system.

Please excuse typos - I'm on my phone.

[C-dub]

My company's lawyer once told us that saying "sorry" to someone is not an admission of guilt.

[WildBill]

My company's lawyer once told us that saying "sorry" to someone is not an admission of guilt.

That was one of my points. For example, if you learn that a person has cancer, and you say "I am so sorry", that doesn't mean that you had anything to do with that person contracting the disease.

[WildBill]

I'm also surprised to see people advocating that a government official use their office and authority to execute personal revenge. That would be a shame for either party and lower people's already skeptical view of the system.

I don't know that anyone advocated this, but people, government official or not, can let their personal experiences interfere with their professional decisions. It may not be right, but it happens.

[tacticool]

It's not revenge to make them follow the same rules as the rest of us.

[WildBill]

A burglary of a habitation in progress is one of the hottest calls that drops regularly. Sometimes it's a good one, sometimes it's not. You don't know until the scene is secure.

I have heard that this is "one of the hottest calls" that an LEO encounters. That said, IMO anyone that gets involved in a situation where there are guns pointed at you, all of the parties are going to be upset and traumatized. So it is not surprising that the judge was upset. Maybe she got huffy because she was a judge, but she was in a situation that was not normal nor pleasant. I am sure that the responding officers didn't like being in that situation either. All I am saying is that it is normal to vent and blow off some steam. But in the end, if handled gingerly, both parties should be able to go away without any animosity.

[pbwalker]

Seems routine to me...

Someone outside goes inside and lowers all the windows, they are in the area for a report of a burglar at house that seems to not be there...this person is in the same area. A reasonable person might assume that the burglar is in the house. Then the judge's gun comes into play. Seems to me like the police did fine, and didn't shoot the wrong person.

Not sure why you guys are all upset - if the judge was chewing me out, when I did exactly what I was supposed to, I would've walked off too, instead of getting into it with her.

Also recommend reading the article - the snippets quoted in this thread tell a bit different story than what I got from reading it.

Police in South Florida often say they routinely must make certain people confirm who they say they are before lowering their weapons.

But Carmita was downright angry. Remember the man outside her kitchen window who pointed a gun at her? Still wearing her pajamas and footies, she approached him afterward. “I said ‘you had a gun pointed at me!’ He said ‘because I felt threatened.’ I said ‘threatened how?'"

...because someone inside had a gun...

From the article:

The call to police said there might be a burglar inside 235 Southwest 4th Street. But there is no 235. Only 236 and 230.

What is the SOP in these instances? Just pick someone who looks / does something suspicious?

This all could have been avoided...

My $0.02

Happens more than you think. You have to do the best that you can with information you've been given.

Man, what a shame...puts both the PD and citizens in such a risky situation.

[Hoi Polloi]

To clarify, it isn't the judge who was upset, had the discussion with the officer, or who was wanting an apology. It was her sister.

The judge's only role was to hear her sister call out that a burglar was outside with a gun, to come to her sister and unholster her gun in the process, to identify her family to the men outside and to ask for their identification, and to walk out gun in hand announcing her presence and intentions following the police commands. She apparently had her cell phone in hand as she also put that down beside the gun, scaring the police. There was no mention if she was calling police with it or not. After they stood down, she said to the police that they all knew who she was. Then the article switches to talking about her sister's conversation with them.

[gigag04]

It's not revenge to make them follow the same rules as the rest of us.

We're getting off topic (my fault) but I'll bite? Do you really want to be held to the same standard as LE? If you beat your wife, get a DWI is it front page news? Equality can be a double edged sword. If courtroom carry is a big draw for you, the local LE agency may have plenty of openings

In all seriousness though, I'm for CHL carry in the courtroom/house.

[mgood]

I posted this several years ago: Looking Down the Barrel

[My room mate, and I] had just moved into an apartment in Garland. The bozo who lived there before us left the alarm set. When we moved in, the light was flashing, but no signal was going out because we had no phone. The apartment office couldn't turn it off, someone from the alarm company would have to do it. And they couldn't access it remotely because we had no phone. It was about a week before the phone company and alarm company could come by and connect us. They both came on the same day and just happened to be there at the same time.

I left John there with the technicians and I was going to the store. I step out of the apartment and start down the walk and there's a Garland Police Officer coming up the walk. He draws his pistol and points it at me.

So the police officer is responding to an alarm. He arrives to see me walking out and draws on me. I knew what it was about as soon as I saw him. I raised my hands and said, "You're here about the alarm, right?" I explained what had happened and pointed out the phone company van and alarm company truck. He went in with me and spoke with the alarm guy and phone guy for maybe 2 minutes, if that, and left.
No harm, no foul.