51% sign clarification

[Mike from Texas]

I should know the answer to this but what is the difference between a 51% sign that is red and one that is blue?

I tried to search but it would not search on the number 51.

[Jasonw560]

Red=business makes more than 51% in alcohol sales

Blue= less than 51% in alcohol sales

[Keith B]

No blue 51% sign, but the unlicensed possession sign which you can carry past. <51% sales of alcohol for on premise consumption



Red 51% sign here - No carry - >=51% sales of alcohol for on premise consumption



Great thread here for all signs http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=34571" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Hoosier Daddy]

I should know the answer to this but what is the difference between a 51% sign that is red and one that is blue?

Is there a blue 51% sign?

[RPB]

I should know the answer to this but what is the difference between a 51% sign that is red and one that is blue?

Is there a blue 51% sign?

no

Blue is for unlicensed ..... That mail is not addressed to CHLs

Red = 51% .... addressed to licensed or unlicensed ... no guns allowed


*the 51% means the TABC figured that "more than* 51%* of income comes from *on premise consumption*

So a liquor store .... normally has a blue sign ... may get over 51% from alcohol sales BUT ...no *on premise consumption* = blue
Walgreens/grocery stores/convenience stores/gas stations which sell beer/wine ... no *on premise consumption* = blue

A restaurant which serves alcohol for on premise consumption... ALSO normally has a blue sign ... *under* 51% of income is from on premise consumption because most income is food sales



a night club ... is usually over 51% income from drinks served and consumed there


Restaurants and bowling alleys "could" have a separate 51% bar like a concession in a food court in a different part of the building than the restaurant itself ... I just posted generalities above for help in understanding.

[Keith B]

I should know the answer to this but what is the difference between a 51% sign that is red and one that is blue?

Is there a blue 51% sign?

no

Blue is for unlicensed ..... That mail is not addressed to CHLs

Red = 51% .... addressed to licensed or unlicensed ... no guns allowed

Actually, there could be. There are no requirements on the lettering, other than the red 51%, so the letters could be blue. Guidelines state:

On-premises retailers must:
• prominently display this sign on the premises at
each public entrance
• make sign at least 6 inches high and 14 inches wide
• use contrasting colors
• post the 51% sign at each entrance of place of business

[RPB]

I defer to Keith B ... I've not known him to ever be wrong.
But the license itself will say sign=red or sign=blue

[Keith B]

I defer to Keith B ... I've not known him to ever be wrong.

I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

I will be the first to say I am not always right, but in this case, I think I am covered. However, the signs that are issued by the TABC local office are blue for the less than 51% and black lettered with the red 51% for over.

There is a post on here somewhere that shows an unlicensed possession sign at Chili's that is red, but it meets the requirements listed, so is a valid posting by the business.

[srothstein]

I should know the answer to this but what is the difference between a 51% sign that is red and one that is blue?

Is there a blue 51% sign?

In addition to Keith's answer, the sign that is STILL required at every hospital and nursing home can be blue. And if they did it correctly, the law says it will be the exact same as the 51% sign except it will not have the red 51 on it. Would it still count as a 51% sign then? BTW, this is why you will still see some hospitals with the red 51% signs - they did not obey the law properly on the sign.

And I emphasized the still because it is meaningless without an additional 30.06 sign but the law is still in place requiring it

[KaiserB]

I should know the answer to this but what is the difference between a 51% sign that is red and one that is blue?

Is there a blue 51% sign?

In addition to Keith's answer, the sign that is STILL required at every hospital and nursing home can be blue. And if they did it correctly, the law says it will be the exact same as the 51% sign except it will not have the red 51 on it. Would it still count as a 51% sign then? BTW, this is why you will still see some hospitals with the red 51% signs - they did not obey the law properly on the sign.

And I emphasized the still because it is meaningless without an additional 30.06 sign but the law is still in place requiring it

(b) A hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code,
or a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety
Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the hospital or
nursing home, as appropriate, a sign that complies with the requirements
of Subsection (c) other than the requirement that the sign
include on its face the number "51".

(c) The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must give
notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a person
licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the premises.
The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least
one inch in height and must include on its face the number "51" printed
in solid red at least five inches in height. The sign shall be displayed in
a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

[CCreyeder]

I should know the answer to this but what is the difference between a 51% sign that is red and one that is blue?

Is there a blue 51% sign?

In addition to Keith's answer, the sign that is STILL required at every hospital and nursing home can be blue. And if they did it correctly, the law says it will be the exact same as the 51% sign except it will not have the red 51 on it. Would it still count as a 51% sign then? BTW, this is why you will still see some hospitals with the red 51% signs - they did not obey the law properly on the sign.

And I emphasized the still because it is meaningless without an additional 30.06 sign but the law is still in place requiring it

(b) A hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code,
or a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety
Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the hospital or
nursing home, as appropriate, a sign that complies with the requirements
of Subsection (c) other than the requirement that the sign
include on its face the number "51".

(c) The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must give
notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a person
licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the premises.
The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least
one inch in height and must include on its face the number "51" printed
in solid red at least five inches in height. The sign shall be displayed in
a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

I am still somewhat confused by this. I guess I never really tried to understand it because the last time I was in a hospital was 13 years ago when my son was born lol... This is what I am understanding ya'll to say:

1. A hospital must post a "51%" sign, as to the actuall wording of the sign.
2. If it does have the red "51%" they posted incorrectly
3. Regardles of #1 and #2, they are not a "bar" where I am not allowed to carry, so AM allowed to carry there, unless they ALSO have a valid 30.06 sign
4. Unless of course, they are a university owned hospital, which may be construed as a "school" and therefor off limits anyway under the no carrying in the premises of a school

Is my understanding correct? Hopefully, it will be a LONG time before I need to go to a hospital, but knock on wood.... lol

[stealthfightrf17]

I would say if the have a 51 sign, then contact TABC and let them know there is one that if posted that should not be, however I would not pass it myself. If they have a 30.06 sign then defenittly a no go.

[srothstein]

1. A hospital must post a "51%" sign, as to the actuall wording of the sign.
2. If it does have the red "51%" they posted incorrectly
3. Regardles of #1 and #2, they are not a "bar" where I am not allowed to carry, so AM allowed to carry there, unless they ALSO have a valid 30.06 sign
4. Unless of course, they are a university owned hospital, which may be construed as a "school" and therefor off limits anyway under the no carrying in the premises of a school

Is my understanding correct? Hopefully, it will be a LONG time before I need to go to a hospital, but knock on wood.... lol

You have it down, as I also understand it to be. Well, with the exception that I would clarify that the teaching hospital may or may not be a school under the law. Since school is not defined, I could see how this can be argued either way. Your number 4 is a good position to take to avoid possible misunderstandings though.

[saltydog452]

Other than just words, how about some images?

Legal, not legal, or a request?

Enforceable or not?

Blue, Red, or Fuscia Orange on 6th Street? Is there a difference?

Words can be questionable and subject to mis-interpetation. That is the direction of this, and other threads. If images remain in the memory longer than lawyer-speak words, (they do), someone really oughta clarify /translate legal-speak into images than can be recognized right then and on-site. That'd be before 'the ride' and w/o a $ 500.00 per hour translator and a $ 1,000.00 expunction fee.

salty

[Keith B]

Other than just words, how about some images?

Legal, not legal, or a request?

Enforceable or not?

Blue, Red, or Fuscia Orange on 6th Street? Is there a difference?

Words can be questionable and subject to mis-interpetation. That is the direction of this, and other threads. If images remain in the memory longer than lawyer-speak words, (they do), someone really oughta clarify /translate legal-speak into images than can be recognized right then. That'd be before 'the ride' and w/o a $ 500.00 per hour translator and a $ 1,000.00 expunction fee.

salty

See this thread http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=34571" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; that I listed in my post above. Lots of images and explaination on if you can carry past them or not.