Bad dealings with HPD last night

[txinvestigator]

A person who is a Peace Officer is a Peace Officer 24/7. Some departments restrict by policy whether an officer can enforce "house rules" when working off duty.

If the officer is not on-duty with his agency and is being paid by the venue (as most are) then he acts as an agent or representative for the owner. Basically he is like a security guard, only one that has the legal authority of a LEO.

[stevie_d_64]

A person who is a Peace Officer is a Peace Officer 24/7. Some departments restrict by policy whether an officer can enforce "house rules" when working off duty.

If the officer is not on-duty with his agency and is being paid by the venue (as most are) then he acts as an agent or representative for the owner. Basically he is like a security guard, only one that has the legal authority of a LEO.

So the charter/duty to detain, investigate, arrest and enforce the law is still under their purveyance even when employed by a private entity???

I do agree with that if my understanding has been correct over these years concerning this issue...

But did you notice the wording in that previous post about how the notification is given???

"You can't carry a gun in here!" (enforceable notification)

"Texas law says that you cannot carry a gun in here!" (not enforcable, but not wise to buck the system)

Personally, even though I am a right friendly person, prone to babble with just about anyone for any reason, this encounter I would probably not have initiated just to ask a question...

I kinda already know what the answer will be in those cases...I'd just rather not engage or broach the subject...

[Tacomaoffroader]

I was in houston this weekend, and went to a bar w/ a friend, wasn't carrying and thought the 51% would have been posted on the door as 30.06 signs are.

But it was inside the door right before you paid your cover. I thought it was kinda scary that the sign was there because if I wasn't just looking around waiting for the person ahead of me to pay it may have been missed (it was off to the side and high above the register.

Anybody know about this? Are the 51% signs supposed to be easy and readily noticable like the 30.06 signs.

I would have liked to see that 51% sign like a sticker such as the 30.06 signs on the door so that they are easy to notice.


-Laurence

[txinvestigator]

I was in houston this weekend, and went to a bar w/ a friend, wasn't carrying and thought the 51% would have been posted on the door as 30.06 signs are.

But it was inside the door right before you paid your cover. I thought it was kinda scary that the sign was there because if I wasn't just looking around waiting for the person ahead of me to pay it may have been missed (it was off to the side and high above the register.

Anybody know about this? Are the 51% signs supposed to be easy and readily noticable like the 30.06 signs.

I would have liked to see that 51% sign like a sticker such as the 30.06 signs on the door so that they are easy to notice.


-Laurence

The law simply says that you cannot carry into a place that derives 51% or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for on-premise consumption. The penal code does not require a bar to post a sign, nor does it offer you a defense if the bar fails to post the sign.

[txinvestigator]

A person who is a Peace Officer is a Peace Officer 24/7. Some departments restrict by policy whether an officer can enforce "house rules" when working off duty.

If the officer is not on-duty with his agency and is being paid by the venue (as most are) then he acts as an agent or representative for the owner. Basically he is like a security guard, only one that has the legal authority of a LEO.

So the charter/duty to detain, investigate, arrest and enforce the law is still under their purveyance even when employed by a private entity???

.

That is correct.

[srothstein]

I believe there may be an assumption that a commissioned law enforcement officer in this state who is hired to do "extra duty" by a private business, somehow equates that position to what the LEO's do while on the clock in their real job...

This is kind of a confusing issue under the law right now. First, under the law, there is no restriction on a peace officer's authority based on time or duty status. There is a restriction on some class C's if he is outside of his jurisdiction but that is it. And if he is inside his jurisdiction, the law requires him to take action to suppress a crime in progress.

The law specifically says that a peace officer may work as a security officer without his being required to get a security officer's license. There are lots of restrictions on this, such as which officers can do it (no reserves) and it must be a one on one relationship between the officer and the employer (officer cannot subcontract other officers without a security company license).

There have been a few court cases on this, where officers have been injured off duty or injured someone else. So far, the city that employs the cop has always been the one held liable, not the bar employing him as a security officer.

So, the effect of this is the bar is paying the officer to hang around. If something happens, he becomes a cop on duty. This means he acts as a cop on duty and has all of his authority. Most departments have policies that stop officers from enforcing house rules just to avoid this type of confusion. Of course, most cops will still enforce the house rules so they can keep their job, and if nothing happens that needs a report they can get away with it.

So, if a cop is working off duty at a specific location and paid by that location, he is an employee of that location and acting with the authority of the owner. I would say this applies even if he is wrong about the ntent of the owner, just as a waitress could give you a mistaken warning to leave and it would be legally binding.

If the cop is on duty for the city, or off duty and just hanging around, he cannot give the legally binding 30.06 warning, though some probably will try anyway. It does get even more confusing when the cop is responding to a call at the location, because he could give you an order to leave that is relayed form the manager who called him and it would be binding.

Best advice to avoid the possible expense of a court case is to act just as the OP did. Leave the weapon in the car until the actual situation can be clarified for next time.

[Tote 9]

So, if a cop is working off duty at a specific location and paid by that location, he is an employee of that location and acting with the authority of the owner. I would say this applies even if he is wrong about the ntent of the owner, just as a waitress could give you a mistaken warning to leave and it would be legally binding.
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Fixed Again.