Confrontation

[duddini]

My apologies if I'm posting in the wrong forum.

I was just thinking about a "what if" scenario. If I'm confronted by say, a guy with a knife and I pull to defend myself, and he then drops the knife. He starts to run away when I try to call 911, do I just let him go to rob someone else another day ?

Probably dumb, but I find myself trying to think about how I should react in different circumstances. I know reality is a whole other ball game, but still....

Thanks for any input.

[Pawpaw]

If he drops the knife and runs away, there is no more threat and no more justification to use deadly force.

That's what you call a good result!

BTW, you carry a weapon to defend yourself & your family, not to take bad guys off the street.

[Kirk]

If he drops the knife and runs away, there is no more threat and no more justification to use deadly force.

That's what you call a good result!

But remember to call the police and report it asap so it doesn't turn into "A guy just pulled a gun on me!" I realize its not right but sometime the first story is the one they believe.

[duddini]

If he drops the knife and runs away, there is no more threat and no more justification to use deadly force.

That's what you call a good result!

BTW, you carry a weapon to defend yourself & your family, not to take bad guys off the street.

Thanks Pawpaw, you're absolutely right, I ain't no Dirty Harry This is pretty much what I thought, just wanted to bounce if some of the folks here.

Thanks again.

[Texas Dan Mosby]

I've seen a few examples floating around, however, my personal use of deadly force ROE revolves around 3 criteria I believe to be in accordance with the law, and common sense, all of which must be met before I would use deadly force: 1)intent 2)ability 3)immediacy.

The "scenario" or "circumstances" do NOT matter to me, simply because the criteria is either met, or it isn't. Period. So be it one or more individuals, with or without weapons, youths, a gang of homicidal senior citizens, escaped monkeys, or whatever, either the criteria is met, or it is not. If the criteria is met, I will use deadly force to stop the threat, and if not, I won't.

Intent displayed to cause unlawful death or serious bodily injury?
- Verbal threats, hostile physical actions, predatory behaviors.
Ability to carry out the intent?
-Size/strength, numbers, use of tools / weapons
Immediacy
-Do I need to use deadly force NOW to stop the threat?
-Is it too late to escape, avoid, use less than lethal force, or use a barrier to stop the threat?

If the answer to all of the above is yes, then I feel confident in being able to justify the use of deadly force to stop a threat, regardless of scenario.

From what I have read, it seems that the biggest problem citizens face involving the use of deadly force revolves around the "immediacy" criteria. Many citizens either use deadly force too soon, or too late, when there is no immediate need. Or they fail to STOP using deadly force after a threat has been stopped. Intent and ability alone won't justify the use of deadly force, there must also be an immediate need, and without that immediacy, there is no justification.

[The Annoyed Man]

If he drops the knife and runs away, there is no more threat and no more justification to use deadly force.

That's what you call a good result!

But remember to call the police and report it asap so it doesn't turn into "A guy just pulled a gun on me!" I realize its not right but sometime the first story is the one they believe.

Also, don't leave. Stay there until the police arrive, AND DON'T LET ANYBODY ELSE TOUCH THAT KNIFE UNTIL THE COPS GET THERE! It will have his fingerprints all over it. With any luck, he has priors, and they'll be able to match the prints to him and go scoop him up.

[Blindref757]

If he pulls a knife inside of 10 yards from me, he won't have much of a chance to drop it. Depending on his demeanor and HIS immediacy to retreat or drop it, once I draw, he better be very deliberate or the cops will be removing the knife from his cold stiff fingers. Not that I'm a cowboy, but I've been around too many LEO's who have drilled it into me that a knife is a serious threat within that distance.

[sugar land dave]

Shooting a guy in the back is still considered poor form.

Now let's say he turns and runs. You lower your guard when suddenly he stops, wheels about with a Mac 10 machine pistol he had hidden in his shorts. Oops!

[Lonest4r]

Well here is my perspective. In the situation the OP described, I would be perfectly satisfied if he drops the knife and runs away. A-I don't want to shoot anyone. For legal and financial reasons it would still stink to be dealing with a clean shoot. B-He is fleeing, and even though I could try and pursue him or detain him, that would put me in more danger. C- If you file a report and they get his prints off of the knife, it could still lead to an arrest or provide support to another person's case if the offender robs someone else and gets himself shot then. D- People make mistakes and do stupid things. If he turns tail and runs maybe he will reconsider his life choices and turn things around. After all, Saul/Paul was a murderer before God gave him a wake up call.

Just my thoughts
Cash value: $.02 ->you get what you pay for!

[kjolly]

Once the threat is over you have no right to use weapon. The attack has stopped, but you do need to call police so they can be aware of a problem on the streets.

[Purplehood]

If he pulls a knife inside of 10 yards from me, he won't have much of a chance to drop it. Depending on his demeanor and HIS immediacy to retreat or drop it, once I draw, he better be very deliberate or the cops will be removing the knife from his cold stiff fingers. Not that I'm a cowboy, but I've been around too many LEO's who have drilled it into me that a knife is a serious threat within that distance.

Actually if he pulls a knife within 10 yards of you, having a concealed weapon may not do you any good unless it is already drawn.

[duddini]

Once the threat is over you have no right to use weapon. The attack has stopped, but you do need to call police so they can be aware of a problem on the streets.

This pretty much sums it up. Thanks everyone for the input. I must say though, several people think a guy 30 feet away with a knife is an extreme threat, I guess I need to re-think things. I suppose the guy could close pretty quick, but still....

Anyway, my original question has been well answered, and I thank all of you.

[SQLGeek]

Once the threat is over you have no right to use weapon. The attack has stopped, but you do need to call police so they can be aware of a problem on the streets.

This pretty much sums it up. Thanks everyone for the input. I must say though, several people think a guy 30 feet away with a knife is an extreme threat, I guess I need to re-think things. I suppose the guy could close pretty quick, but still....

Anyway, my original question has been well answered, and I thank all of you.

Read this:

http://www.usadojo.com/articles/21-feet.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[BigPa]

It has been proven that if the guy is at 21 feet, he will more than likely cut you. Stay on guard, call the police, let them take it from there.

This scenario should be a part of your practice routine. We put a target on an old lawn mower deck. Placed it 21 feet away from shooting line. We had it rigged up so that someone would take off running pulling a rope, which would make the mower deck coma straight at you.. No BEEP, no notice. We learned right away, as you are drawing your weapon, you better be moving off to the side as well. It gets there way faster than you would ever think.

[Tamie]

If he pulls a knife inside of 10 yards from me, he won't have much of a chance to drop it. Depending on his demeanor and HIS immediacy to retreat or drop it, once I draw, he better be very deliberate or the cops will be removing the knife from his cold stiff fingers. Not that I'm a cowboy, but I've been around too many LEO's who have drilled it into me that a knife is a serious threat within that distance.

Actually if he pulls a knife within 10 yards of you, having a concealed weapon may not do you any good unless it is already drawn.

That means if you do decide to draw, you probably don't have time to wait and see if he will drop the knife and run away. If he's an immediate threat, you need to shoot immediately and keep shooting until you're sure you stopped the threat.