You could be a Terrorist

[mamabearCali]

I have been trying to find that video on a different web site. Info wars is usually ok, but they have less credibilty in some people's eyes than others (though quite honestly I trust them more than NBC!) I would like for this to be seen outside of Alex Jones (he is a lightening rod). If the DHS really is putting out video like this it should go in the same jar as "Refer Madness"

Your wish is my command (this time): http://youtube.com/watch?v=K7q3bWEvl7o

I started to post a new thread about this yesterday afternoon, but decided that it doesn't matter what they say or do. You can count on them having a stupid attitude because they are managed by fundamentally stupid people. This crap is produced because elections have consequences.

In 2012, please vote in the general election for the candidate with the best chance of beating Obama—even if that candidate isn't your perfect ideal. Just this once. It is far easier to deal with a moderate to squishy "conservative" than it is to deal with a marxist ideologue like Obama. When you get rid of him, you get rid of Janet Napolitano. We won't be able to eliminate Homeland Security, but we can certainly do whatever we can to ensure that it has less toxic leadership. ALL of this stuff flows from the top down. Cut off its head, and we'll likely have a less poisonous brand of "stuff."

Thanks so much! And as for voting for Anyone But Obama you got it. There are several candidates that are decent and some that are only fair, but ANY of them would be better than this guy (and his buddies)

[Purplehood]

I have been trying to find that video on a different web site. Info wars is usually ok, but they have less credibilty in some people's eyes than others (though quite honestly I trust them more than NBC!) I would like for this to be seen outside of Alex Jones (he is a lightening rod). If the DHS really is putting out video like this it should go in the same jar as "Refer Madness"

Your wish is my command (this time): http://youtube.com/watch?v=K7q3bWEvl7o

I started to post a new thread about this yesterday afternoon, but decided that it doesn't matter what they say or do. You can count on them having a stupid attitude because they are managed by fundamentally stupid people. This crap is produced because elections have consequences.

In 2012, please vote in the general election for the candidate with the best chance of beating Obama—even if that candidate isn't your perfect ideal. Just this once. It is far easier to deal with a moderate to squishy "conservative" than it is to deal with a marxist ideologue like Obama. When you get rid of him, you get rid of Janet Napolitano. We won't be able to eliminate Homeland Security, but we can certainly do whatever we can to ensure that it has less toxic leadership. ALL of this stuff flows from the top down. Cut off its head, and we'll likely have a less poisonous brand of "stuff."

Thanks so much! And as for voting for Anyone But Obama you got it. There are several candidates that are decent and some that are only fair, but ANY of them would be better than this guy (and his buddies)

Hey, I expect a citation for the "Anyone But Obama" bumper sticker!

[VMI77]

Although DHS published literature a year or so ago that painted almost any conservative as a potential terrorist, in my opinion, this video does not convey the same message. It looks well made and nothing more than common sense. If you saw two guys sitting in a van on a parking lot garage, who look nervous and walk away from the van and throw away the keys, would you just ignore it? How a about the guy at the mall climbing the stairs, stopping at the landing, removing his back pack and then walking away and running after being called. Would you just ignore it? How about the guy that walked behind someone going into a secure area of an airport, would you ignore that?

I saw nothing on this video that said or imply that we should be watching and reporting on our neighbors. The author on that sight is letting his paranoia see things that are not there. I am not a fan of the DHS and was totally offended by pamphlet they publish before, but I see nothing wrong with this video. Just my $0.02

One of the problems is with the assumptions. The video steers your assumptions to one particular conclusion --that the acts portrayed depict imminent terrorism. Maybe this video would be less ridiculous if it was played in Israel, but really, how many terrorist bombs are going off in cafes, malls, movie theaters, and parking garages in America? How many actual terrorists look like the actors in the video? The video suggests that domestic terrorism, conducted by Americans, is rampant --those guys in the van, the guy climbing the mall stairs, are a potential "terrorists." The video suggests terrorists look like you and me so anyone, even your neighbors, could be terrorists. The statistics say that's nonsense. If the guy leaving his backpack is really doing anything wrong it's FAR more likely he's a thief than a terrorist, but that's not what the DHS is suggesting.

Check your assumptions. For instance, in the one instance, why are they throwing away the keys to the van? You don't know, and in real life you wouldn't be so certain they were even throwing away the van keys....maybe they tried the keys and they're throwing them away because they didn't work. Maybe grandma lost her keys and her grandsons went to see if they could get it rolling with a set of spares. Or maybe they found those keys in the parking lot and thought they were grandma's but they didn't work. Maybe they're nervous because they're stranded in a bad part of town. The DHS wants you to believe that they're "terrorists" about to explode a bomb. Again, the less dramatic conclusions are far more likely.

Some people have a very low threshold for what they consider "suspicious." You want people to call the police if they see a "suspicious" bulge under your shirt? You want to answer to the police every time you do something someone else who doesn't have the complete picture thinks is suspicious? A lot of people lack the intelligence and judgment to make good choices about what is truly suspicious. In addition to the fact that we'd be living in a society of snitches if people reported all the activities some of these videos suggest are suspicious (I saw one where a guy taking a video and a guy writing in a notebook were deemed suspicious) the police would be wasting resources checking on things that 99.9% of the time have nothing to do with "terrorism."

[The Annoyed Man]

In addition to the fact that we'd be living in a society of snitches if people reported all the activities some of these videos suggest are suspicious (I saw one where a guy taking a video and a guy writing in a notebook were deemed suspicious) the police would be wasting resources checking on things that 99.9% of the time have nothing to do with "terrorism."

The "snitch" part is the most troubling to me, for exactly some of the reasons you've outlined. I have been known to sit on a park bench and make notes in a notebook. It's called "journaling," and the last time I checked, it was neither a suspicous nor a criminal activity. Notice that all the suspicious persons are wearing hoodies. Since when is wearing a hoodie a crime? Since when do all criminals and terrorists wear hoodies? If I were a terrorist, I would want to look as normal as possible and blend in as much as possible while scouting locations. So let's assume that real terrorists are smart enough to try and blend in. How then are you going to tell if someone is suspicious or not? It's going to be entirely contextual.

The guy in the train station taking notes in his notebook and using his iPhone camera....how does the woman who called it in know he isn't a NYU or Columbia University transportation engineering student working on documentation for a class paper? Simply put.... she doesn't. Oh wait, it must be the hoodie. Yeah, that's it.

Follow the money. Every one of those phone tips requires an agent of DHS to investigate it. That means they need more agents. That means they need a bigger budget. That means they get spared the budgetary axe. Etc., etc. Napolitano has to go. She is toxic to the American way of life. The only way to get rid of her is to get rid of this president. The only way to get rid of this president is to throroughly repudiate him and his policies at the voting booth. Vote for whomever you want in the primaries, but please, this time, vote for the most viable candidate opposing him who has the best statistical chance of beating him in the general election. Please do not squander your vote on a third party choice. THIS election is far too important for that, this time around.

[Ed4032]

I think they are on to me.....

[The Annoyed Man]

I think they are on to me.....

You're the white guy in the hoodie?

[VMI77]

In addition to the fact that we'd be living in a society of snitches if people reported all the activities some of these videos suggest are suspicious (I saw one where a guy taking a video and a guy writing in a notebook were deemed suspicious) the police would be wasting resources checking on things that 99.9% of the time have nothing to do with "terrorism."

The "snitch" part is the most troubling to me, for exactly some of the reasons you've outlined. I have been known to sit on a park bench and make notes in a notebook. It's called "journaling," and the last time I checked, it was neither a suspicous nor a criminal activity. Notice that all the suspicious persons are wearing hoodies. Since when is wearing a hoodie a crime? Since when do all criminals and terrorists wear hoodies? If I were a terrorist, I would want to look as normal as possible and blend in as much as possible while scouting locations. So let's assume that real terrorists are smart enough to try and blend in. How then are you going to tell if someone is suspicious or not? It's going to be entirely contextual.

The guy in the train station taking notes in his notebook and using his iPhone camera....how does the woman who called it in know he isn't a NYU or Columbia University transportation engineering student working on documentation for a class paper? Simply put.... she doesn't. Oh wait, it must be the hoodie. Yeah, that's it.

Follow the money. Every one of those phone tips requires an agent of DHS to investigate it. That means they need more agents. That means they need a bigger budget. That means they get spared the budgetary axe. Etc., etc. Napolitano has to go. She is toxic to the American way of life. The only way to get rid of her is to get rid of this president. The only way to get rid of this president is to throroughly repudiate him and his policies at the voting booth. Vote for whomever you want in the primaries, but please, this time, vote for the most viable candidate opposing him who has the best statistical chance of beating him in the general election. Please do not squander your vote on a third party choice. THIS election is far too important for that, this time around.

I totally agree. And hey, I've done even worse, I've sat on downtown area benches in Tulsa with a note pad drawing people and buildings. This was before 9/11. Lot's of people stopped to see what I was doing, and then commented about my drawing and asked related questions, or moved on. I can only imagine what kind of response my drawing would provoke today.

[Ed4032]

I think they are on to me.....

You're the white guy in the hoodie?

So that WAS you I saw at the meeting !!!!

[wharvey]

I recently moved from S. Indiana, lived in the little town of Borden (called New Providence on some maps ). Driving into town from the north is a sign painting on a full sheet of plywood. It reads:

One
Bad
Ass
Mistake
America

Sure that guy has to be on the terrorist list.

[boba]

Could be, if pushed enough.

[74novaman]

this seemed appropriate for this thread:

[clarionite]

I totally agree. And hey, I've done even worse, I've sat on downtown area benches in Tulsa with a note pad drawing people and buildings. This was before 9/11. Lot's of people stopped to see what I was doing, and then commented about my drawing and asked related questions, or moved on. I can only imagine what kind of response my drawing would provoke today.

Last Friday night a buddy and I must have been on the top of their list... Two white guys with telephoto lenses taking pictures of people and buildings in down town San Antonio.

I'm so sick of "Feel Good" solutions, that do nothing to make us safer but acutally take away our freedoms.

[VMI77]

I totally agree. And hey, I've done even worse, I've sat on downtown area benches in Tulsa with a note pad drawing people and buildings. This was before 9/11. Lot's of people stopped to see what I was doing, and then commented about my drawing and asked related questions, or moved on. I can only imagine what kind of response my drawing would provoke today.

Last Friday night a buddy and I must have been on the top of their list... Two white guys with telephoto lenses taking pictures of people and buildings in down town San Antonio.

I'm so sick of "Feel Good" solutions, that do nothing to make us safer but acutally take away our freedoms.

I've been hassled many times taking photos, but usually by security guards or just passers by, not the police. I'm assuming you didn't have any problems? Seems like places like downtown SA, which is likely to have tourists, should be more photo friendly. I've walked around downtown Austin and the UT campus taking photos very late at night. Once I set up across from the UT tower on a sidewalk while about five police officers stood nearby talking to each other --no one said a word to me.

About two years ago I was seeing my son off to China and openly taking photos and videos (with a DSLR), including photos of the security lines, TSA agents, and just about every part of the terminal. No one said a word to me. TSA people were aware of my photography and they ignored me. So, things were as they should be and I felt right with the world. It was around 6 AM as I left, and on the way to the parking garage I stopped to shoot some video of the taxis in front of the terminal. My camera was brand new and I wanted to check out the HD video feature while it was still dark. My wife was with me too. Suddenly a security guard was in front of me questioning me about what I was doing. I said I was taking photos --that I had a new camera and wanted to check out a night shot. In a quaking and confrontational voice she said something about being sensitive to people taking photos in front of the terminal. I asked if I was doing anything illegal? She said no (so in this case they at least weren't making up the law). I offered to show her the photos I'd taken. This offer was declined and did not in any way appease her. The situation was becoming increasingly confrontational so I asked again if I was doing anything illegal? When she said no again I turned around and left.

This anti-photography stuff is so stupid it beggars belief. If I was a "terrorist" I could simply go to Google and download all the photos of the Austin airport I wanted, with zero chance of risking exposure. Or I could spend $20 on a video spy pen and walk around taking all the video I wanted with no one the wiser. Not to mention the absurdity of the notion that someone needs a photograph before they can attack something or blow it up.

[tbrown]

If you buy reloading supplies, you could be a terrorist.